TJ suspension issue question
- Thread starter The Raven
- Start date
1stDeuce
Explorer
This points to the bushings being softer and the rate going down as they warm up. I forgot to mention that step 1 is BALANCE THE TIRES. And it needs to be a dynamic balance, which ALWAYS means weights on both sides of the tires, not just that they spin balanced them. Make sure none are wobblers too. And I'm curious if you're running BFG AT's... They seem 10x more prone to DW on a TJ or XJ than any other tire I've seen...
Here's another DW writeup that I compiled for work, with the help of Jim Frens, formerly of Nth Degree Suspension: http://www.spcalignment.com/faq/article/death_wobble_%28severe_front_end_shake_or_shimmy%29_
apexkw hit almost all of these points in his excellent response. He must work in suspension alignment, or he should consider it!
And rest assured, OME isn't the problem, it's the change in front geometry brought about by the extra lift height. You'd be chasing DW even if you put in a spacer lift.
C
PS, are you actually in the area formerly known as norumbega, or somewhere else?
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The Raven
Member
I did have a occasional minor death wobble prior to the OME setup. Did find a bad track bar axle mount bushing which was replaced. I do understand that the stabilizer is not the cause, but will allow me to drive the jeep while I am chasing down the primary issue. It is my DD. I am hoping the extended castor will help but suspect the control arm bushings as they are very soft. In any case I will install the castor bolts and go from there.
I wish I could take credit for that but I can't, its on the link I posted to ROF. I'm currently on my third TJ and second rubicon and I have done every bit of suspension work on them since 1999. My current tj has 35's toyo mt's, Hutchinson Beadlocks, Rokmen upper and lower control arms with johnny joints and a clevit bushing on one end, heavy duty currie track bar, and the currie correctlync, and some other goodies. Throughout the years I have had to swap all the original oem parts out with new oem parts or aftermarket upgrades and then ensure that things are tight, aligned and balanced it solved my problems. My worn control arm bushings on the original lower control arms had an amazing amount of play in them that caused my initial wobbling that later evolved into death wobble as everything began to wear out from the constant wobble. Almost all of my jeep oem control arm bushings and tie rod ends (TRE's) were in my opinion severely worn at 80,000 miles. I'll add some info from Stu's website as well, as he explains things far better then I typically do.
Anyways I suggest setting the toe in alignment first as its easy enough to do yourself. Know that you can not adjust the entire alignment as not all of the original jeep suspension is adjustable. You can basically only set the toe in alignment with factory control arms along with some minor other adjustment. After you have done any suspension height adjustment (up or down in height), you need to take a look at your front axle's toe-in setting. The TJ runs toe-in.....which means the leading side of the tires point inward a bit. looks like this => top is the front of your tires, bottom is the rear /-\ instead of |-| or \-/ If you were to create an imaginary line drawn around the center of a tire on its tread, you would find that the measurement at the front of the tire is slightly less than the measurement taken on the back side of the tire. 1/8 of an inch or 3.175mm is the difference you are aiming for, so the back of the tire would be slightly wider than the front. Properly adjusting your vehicle's toe-in setting will help improve handling (a TJ with zero toe-in will seem to wander a bit on the road) and it can certainly extend the life of your tires compared to a vehicle where the toe-in is out of spec. Proper toe in is critical in getting rid of death wobble and in some cases i have seen it eliminate death wobble just by adjusting the toe in.
Here is a photo explaining the basic front end setup.
The following are links to an easy way to set the toe in alignment.
http://www.4x4xplor.com/alignment.html
http://www.stu-offroad.com/steering/align/align-1.htm
after addressing the toe in then I would check for play in your tre's, ball joints, and bushings. A visual inspection of these parts is free for you to do with some elbow grease. Finally I would say tires..I had a bad set of BFG's and I could never get them to balance which constantly gave me a wobble at certain speeds (45-52mph). The only reason I put the tires as last is because of cost to replace brand new tires which may have a problem not visible to the naked eye with another set of tires. If your tires are visibly worn, cupped, or damaged then they will only make finding the problem worse as worn tires alone can and will cause death wobble. An easy way to decide where the main issue causing death wobble is when does it happen? *Over bumps then yes death wobble, and parts are worn out. If its more at certain speeds then the tires tend to be the culprit.
Jim Frens is the man! I cant wait until knowwhere2jeep re-re-releases the Nth suspension parts again! i've already emailed them asking them to take my money
Anyways I suggest setting the toe in alignment first as its easy enough to do yourself. Know that you can not adjust the entire alignment as not all of the original jeep suspension is adjustable. You can basically only set the toe in alignment with factory control arms along with some minor other adjustment. After you have done any suspension height adjustment (up or down in height), you need to take a look at your front axle's toe-in setting. The TJ runs toe-in.....which means the leading side of the tires point inward a bit. looks like this => top is the front of your tires, bottom is the rear /-\ instead of |-| or \-/ If you were to create an imaginary line drawn around the center of a tire on its tread, you would find that the measurement at the front of the tire is slightly less than the measurement taken on the back side of the tire. 1/8 of an inch or 3.175mm is the difference you are aiming for, so the back of the tire would be slightly wider than the front. Properly adjusting your vehicle's toe-in setting will help improve handling (a TJ with zero toe-in will seem to wander a bit on the road) and it can certainly extend the life of your tires compared to a vehicle where the toe-in is out of spec. Proper toe in is critical in getting rid of death wobble and in some cases i have seen it eliminate death wobble just by adjusting the toe in.
Here is a photo explaining the basic front end setup.
The following are links to an easy way to set the toe in alignment.
http://www.4x4xplor.com/alignment.html
http://www.stu-offroad.com/steering/align/align-1.htm
after addressing the toe in then I would check for play in your tre's, ball joints, and bushings. A visual inspection of these parts is free for you to do with some elbow grease. Finally I would say tires..I had a bad set of BFG's and I could never get them to balance which constantly gave me a wobble at certain speeds (45-52mph). The only reason I put the tires as last is because of cost to replace brand new tires which may have a problem not visible to the naked eye with another set of tires. If your tires are visibly worn, cupped, or damaged then they will only make finding the problem worse as worn tires alone can and will cause death wobble. An easy way to decide where the main issue causing death wobble is when does it happen? *Over bumps then yes death wobble, and parts are worn out. If its more at certain speeds then the tires tend to be the culprit.
Jim Frens is the man! I cant wait until knowwhere2jeep re-re-releases the Nth suspension parts again! i've already emailed them asking them to take my money
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Barrows
Adventurer
Personally I would check the track bar bolt first....it should be ubertight. If that doesn't fix it you may need to replace the control arm bushings. That is what solved the problem on my jeep. A good way to see what the problem is to jack up the front suspension and cycle it back and forth, if any part has a lot of play in it there is your culprit. Good luck on your search.
Agreed, check the track bar. Get a friend to turn the steering wheel so you can be in the front and inspect for play in the joints. I did this with the jeep resting on the ground and jacked in the air to see the differences.
The Raven
Member
Yeah the track bar is fine, just replaced, a new factory bolt, torqued to factory specs. It does not move a hair. .....BUT while investigating a squeak on bumps which turned out to be my axle u-joint getting dry, I did find that my pitman arm tie rod is pretty badly worn and moves back and forth about a 1/4" on turning. I would call that a suspect to the DW as well.
The Raven
Member
Put the new tie rod end on....boy that was easy. Added tension with the pickle fork...then a quick wrap with a BFBP on the pitman arm and she squirted out. Worst part is my steering moved so had to do part of the job twice. Tomorrow the SS and the cams are coming...hopefully this will be the end of death wobble for now.
The Raven
Member
Well, between all the mods the jeep drives solid and I tried to induce a death wobble and could not. I believe the combination of fixing the couple loose parts, pushing the front axle forward a bit and replacing the bad stabilizer took care of the issue. If I do get another I will be replacing another tie rod end that was slightly loose as well as the control arms.