To MAC or Not To MAC (and other DV questions)

[West Coast Mags]

To Mac or Not To Mac (and other DV questions)

Recently it's become evident that I need to updgrade my current video making system ($300 pocket digital camera, windows movie maker, running on a 2 ghz pentium PC) to something a bit more professional. I make 1-3 20 minute long travel movies a month that are pretty simple - video clips strung together, intro screen, credit screen, all set to music background. Currently no dialog overlay - which is a reason for the upgrade. I'd like to go to the next level and am shopping for:

High def video cam ($800-1200) (display screen must be able to rotate around so I can watch narration shots of myself while filming), decent helmet cam ($250-450), decent digital SLR ($500-800), mabye an upgraded audio mic ($100-200) semi-pro editing program - Adobe Premier or similar ($500-$1000). Since I work in eduation I can get an educators discount on the Adobe products (about half off) - Apple didn't seem receptive to the concept of educators discount so their software will be twice as much.

The majority of the cameras I've looked at are preset to the Mac formats and all of the sample videos I've seen that have the look I want are done in Macs Final Cut software which seems to be the industry standard. Seems that EVERYONE uses Final Cut.

So my question is: While I'm dropping this much money for upgraded gear will I be ok sticking to my existing PC platiform or to "do it right" - do I need to add in a Mac Pro ($2000+) in order to get the results I'm looking for?

When I first started thinking about the initial upgrade my rough budget was about $2500 for everything and I planned on having to learn a new editing program and new gear but hadn't thought of possibly needing to switch from PC to Mac. I currently do not have a laptop so if I do need to switch I might be able to better justify (still a big stretch) by going to a Mac lap top. Can I get close quality with a PC / Adobe Premier as I could with a Mac system and Final Cut using the above priced gear? Or will the Mac just be that much better to justify the additonal $2k or more.

I'm pretty much new to everything outside of my existing set up, and am trying to avoid my natural tendency to research everything to death over the next year (which prevents me from making videos) - as I'd rather just get some good advice now on what might accomplish my goals - just buy it without tons of research - and get back into making travel videos now - which is what I enjoy. Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[johnnyrover]

Our mixed environment uses Mac for all video editing, no matter how minor.

 

[adventureduo]

From a long time PC user running Adobe Premiere, I would go Mac all the way. Buy a used G5 dual processor tower and 2 cheap CRT's. You'll get a ton of bang for your buck. You'll be able to edit on FCP, run DVD Studio Pro and Motion for years to come no problem. For me, PC's crashed way too damn much for me to use. For video and graphics macs can just handle it better. You can get educational discount on mac software as well. We run a dual G5 with dual monitors and a KONA card. Works great and reliable as heck.

 

[dave@chingadera]

If it were me. I would purchase:

Canon 5d Mark III: Full Frame DSLR and 1080HD video $2700 plus lenses
Video

and the new mac 17" laptop announced today

I use the Red one, Sony EX-1, and Panasonic HVX. and Have both the Mac Tower and 17" laptop for editing. I think you could make some very high end looking video with just the canon and the laptop with the included software. my 2¢

 

[adventureduo]

If it were me. I would purchase:

Canon 5d Mark III: Full Frame DSLR and 1080HD video $2700 plus lenses
Video

and the new mac 17" laptop announced today

I use the Red one, Sony EX-1, and Panasonic HVX. and Have both the Mac Tower and 17" laptop for editing. I think you could make some very high end looking video with just the canon and the laptop with the included software. my 2¢

Isn't that way over his budget?

 

[dave@chingadera]

Not if you combine the DSLR budget with the Video Cam budget. And not having to buy accessories and cases for both. He would also save money not having to purchase software with the new iLife that was announced today. It has some very powerful features. He could probably get away with a used 17" and save some cash that way.

It's just my opinion. I film a lot on the road and am having to cut on airplanes and in hotel rooms and that would be my ideal set up.

 

[Lost Canadian]

While the 5d II sounds and looks great with the staged videos, in real world practice it proves to be an entirely different beast. If your primary focus is video I wouldn't look a 5D II. No autofocus limits it's usefulness, and IS lenses are a must if you want a half steady shot off a tripod. The D90 and 5D II's video is a nice "fluffy" feature for a DSLR, a great starting point for the convergence of stills and video, but it's still miles from being a go to source for video.

As to the original question Mac or PC, I'd go Mac for video. My freind has been running a similar setup to the one mentioned by SOCALFJ, but with a nice Apple Cinema panel. He does tons of home video, and it works super smooth for him. Having tried it, I will say it works much better than my PC setup. The value of a switch can really only be determined by you. I will say though, if I did a lot of video, I'd be looking hard at making a switch to Mac.

 

[West Coast Mags]

Folks I really appreaciate all the responses. That video with the Canon Eos was incredible but equally incrediable was the long list of "glass" used in the filming also, if I refyied the house I could probably buy that list of lenses but not an option. If I tally up my budget numbers listed in my first post, to just upgrade my PC stuff I'd be about $2700 total for the whole chebang (video cam, slr, helmet cam, mic, editing suite). Once bills are factored out thats about four months worth of my disposable income. If I switched to Mac and could get an educators discount on Final Cut making it the same price as Adobe Premier, the price would double to eight months worth of usable income with the cost of a Mac laptop or desktop. So that would mean four more months of no travel other than to work and back, no entertainment, no restaraunts, no beer in the fridge, zero zip zilch nada. So again is the difference in quality of going Mac that big that it would warrant it? Regarding the person saying they crashed their PC while doing video, I guess to be fair I have crashed my current pentium a few times trying to multi-task mainly trying trying to upload pics to my host, while waiting the 35 minutes it takes to save my 20 minute long movie. And to date I still haven't got my current system to burn a full DVD without crashing somewhere in the middle, and thats with low def video. So maybe the need for a new base system is evident. Thoughts?

Does anyone have an examples of good video quality they could share that were done in HD using Adobe Premier?

Thanks again for the input, more would be welcome.

 

[spressomon]

After years of vacillating over whether or not to convert over to Mac from PC we did just that exactly one year ago. Best computer related thing I ever did!

Gotta say thanks to Alvaro for pushing us and being patient at the same time ;-)



OBTW: I do run a VMWare virtual Windows partition for a couple PC only programs (Icom 2M programming software; work VPN, etc.)...works just fine and they've had it on sale lately for $50.

 

[astn]

If you get a Mac, you won't regret it. However, I would personally be leaning towards a used or refurbished computer with your budget. I wouldn't get anything that isn't Intel processor (sadly the older G4 + G5 were better built computers, but they are quickly approaching end of life based on software/OS upgrades, etc.). If you are looking for a laptop, the previous model MacBook Pro 15" is at a sweet price point. Many people (my wife included) are trying to sell them but because the new model is substantially different, people don't want to older ones (so the price is $1000-1200 for a computer that retailed closer to $2500.)

Austin

 

[West Coast Mags]

ASTN: I noticed the same thing last night - typed Macbook pro into Craigslist and saw lots of the previous generation loaded with software in the $1000-$1200 range. Would something like that work for what I'm looking to do, or do I really need to get a brand new unit. Any recommendations on the minimum hardware I would need if using the previous generation unit (clock speed, ram, version numbers of software? etc.)

 

[spressomon]

ASTN: I noticed the same thing last night - typed Macbook pro into Craigslist and saw lots of the previous generation loaded with software in the $1000-$1200 range. Would something like that work for what I'm looking to do, or do I really need to get a brand new unit. Any recommendations on the minimum hardware I would need if using the previous generation unit (clock speed, ram, version numbers of software? etc.)

IMO: Intel & Leopard. Heavy graphics/video use then you will want a full size computer rather than a laptop style. So you are looking at Macs that are up to about 1-year old in this arena. I have a 1-year old iMac that performs nicely. However if I was doing anymore photo work (and certainly video creation, editing, etc) than a home hobbyist I would want a Mac Pro. I also have a 9-month old MacBook that serves its purpose very well too as mobile platform but would drive me nuts even if I had to use it for photo work in lieu of my iMac.

 

[Cypher]

Just to drive the point further, all the graphics artists and video editors I know all use Macs. I have also been using Macs for a number of years now and love them. It will only hurt when you swipe you card but well worth it in the end. Sounds like you will get your money's worth out of the setup with as much as you are doing.

 

[astn]

ASTN: I noticed the same thing last night - typed Macbook pro into Craigslist and saw lots of the previous generation loaded with software in the $1000-$1200 range. Would something like that work for what I'm looking to do, or do I really need to get a brand new unit. Any recommendations on the minimum hardware I would need if using the previous generation unit (clock speed, ram, version numbers of software? etc.)

The latest revisions of the Macbook Pro line have been more aesthetic then functional. While there have been significant hardware changes, they haven't really affected the bottom line performance of the computer much.

Any Macbook Pro with over one year of AppleCare left on it should be go to go. That ensures that it is only one revision 'out of date' and that there should be nothing wrong with the unit. Inspect the unit carefully for any cosmetic damage, particularly dents or any weird "bumps" in the casing. The exterior should be sleek and smooth. This is important because if there are any major exterior damage, Apple MAY invalidate your warranty (which could be a reason why that person is getting rid of it.) I've actually had some very beat up computers serviced under warranty, but with the vast selection to choose from right now you should be able to get a very clean one for the same price as any other.

If you can, buy locally via Craigslist then using eBay simply because it offers you the ability to inspect the computer. I've never bought a computer off eBay though I know several people who have done so successfully, but I wouldn't want to provide advice on it.

As far as any other models beside the MBP15--if you wait a bit you may be able to get a 17" as people try to unload them for the new model. If you're getting an iMac, I would suggest holding off until the new line drops--they haven't been updated in about a year and even if the updates don't make it worthwhile to buy new, it WILL drop the price point on used. Regarding Mac Pro you can see my opinion below, but it's just too much computer and costs way too much. Stay away from the regular MacBook or Mac Mini for what you're trying to do.

IMO: Intel & Leopard. Heavy graphics/video use then you will want a full size computer rather than a laptop style. So you are looking at Macs that are up to about 1-year old in this arena. I have a 1-year old iMac that performs nicely. However if I was doing anymore photo work (and certainly video creation, editing, etc) than a home hobbyist I would want a Mac Pro. I also have a 9-month old MacBook that serves its purpose very well too as mobile platform but would drive me nuts even if I had to use it for photo work in lieu of my iMac.

Honestly, the type of work he is describing is very casual compared to what a lot of people are putting their computer (both PC and Apple) through, and can be done on a laptop very easily. A Mac Pro is more of an investment for someone who is making money off their computer, needs the additional expandability, or has more money then sense.

While a baseline Pro will obviously outperform any other system just due to the two extra processor cores, in practice it seems to equate to maybe a 30% reduction of time during processor intensive tasks (such as encoding video or running a 'heavy' filter.) I personally use a MBP17 as my primary machine, while my roommate, a graphics designer, has a Mac Pro. While on vacations, etc, he has borrowed one of my spare laptops so he could continue working and his number one complaint was "lack of storage," not performance. He said the MBP cranked out every one of his tasks without an issue and didn't feel "significantly longer" except for ripping a DVD.

His number two complaint was screen size, which might be the direction you're talking about. A Mac Pro can run 2 * 30" LCDs, which is a LOT of real estate (frankly, too much, I can "get lost" using them.) Any MBP can drive AT least a 23" LCD, and anything last model should be able to drive a 30" screen in addition to the laptop display (or you could run it "closed" with a 30" screen as your single display.)

Austin

 

[Schattenjager]

Go to Apple.com and watch the Keynote for Macworld. There is a lot of info on iLife, which will blow you away.