To Pop Up or not to Pop Up?

[andy_b]

It seems like wind load is the only major con for hard-sided that people have found (other than weight). Is that right? It seems like weight could be taken care of with a bigger truck (350-450 or equivalent).

As for lowing the height of a TC box, that sounds good in theory if you're a shorter person (like me), but it would also lower the (already low) cab-over height to make it even more coffin like.

One of the best modifications I've done is to add hydro-assist steering. Besides making turning big tires easy, a side-benefit of hydro-assist is that it is the best steering damper around.

Our camper is around 11'6" tall. It is unaffected by side-winds by and large. Adding hydro-assist is going to be an early mod in all future trucks where possible.

Regarding the topic of this thread, it always surprises me that the market for pop-up campers is as large as it is. For camping for an extended period of time a hard side camper has no downsides and numerous positives as others have mentioned already.

 

[BajaSurfRig]

I have owned a FWC and multiple hardsides. Might take a 1-2 mpg hit with the hardside and I can feel it in off camber situations. Other than that I love my Lance 815. It is pretty light (under 2k dry) and it is only a few inches wider than my old FWC Grandby. I have dragged my 815 down some roads that would give a lot of folks pause going down and it has done great. A battery powered pole saw is a nice thing to carry with a hardside.

 

[JaSAn]

. . . My wife also has the security concern, which is her biggest argument against the pop-up. Happy wife, happy life . . .

Why is this a question then?
IMHO security in a camper is an illusion. Unless you have an armored camper they all are easy to gain entrance with a crowbar or claw.
Get what you need to make your wife and kids feel secure.

 

[rruff]

I have a hunting buddy who has a Northern Lite hard side on a 2022 Ram 2500 4X4 gas. I have a FWC Grandby on a 2012 Ram 2500 4X4 gas. We travel together to hunt once a year, so same route, same time, same speed, same conditions. I loose ~2 mpg, he looses about 5mpg from camperless travel. One data point.

Another data point... I lose a little less than 2 mpg on the highway with a 76" interior height, and flatbed style, which makes it stick up higher. The aerodynamics of most campers are crap... including the FWC, but it makes up for it by being short.

Overland Adventure Truck had a prototype of the Total Composites camper with a pagoda roof. This options provides better clearance for tunnels, shelf roads, and trees. There is less roof real estate for solar panels and you need a short door. I'd love to see this as a TC offering. Being able to do the pagoda roof in combination with cutting down the interior height (unless you are really tall) seems like a great path for me.

It's better if those bevels are even shallower; really only need full height in the middle IMO. I think if you custom build with TC you could choose that surely, as OAT did.

Or... if you want to just DIY... I'm pretty well convinced that we worry way too much about joining edges. See this thread: https://forum.expeditionportal.com/...els-for-ya-trailer.243128/page-5#post-3163232 And also check out how Styromax in Oz joins their panels... just a butt-joint with glue. Personally I'd add a layer of cloth on the outside, but that is pretty simple and easily adaptable to different angles.

Boreas is offering CNC cut custom panels now for I think $22/sq ft which is not bad in the grand scheme of things. Or you can do your own from scratch. You can bevel the edges to minimize the amount of glue needed to fill the gap. This is what I'd do, if I was to do it again...

 

[gwittman]

What about a hard side popup like Hiatus? That is the direction I am contemplating. They do have a long wait list if ordered new. I don't know if any are available used.

 

[ExDPRVr]

What about a hard side popup like Hiatus? That is the direction I am contemplating. They do have a long wait list if ordered new. I don't know if any are available used.

Given they just delivered their 100th build I doubt there will be any used ones for a while, and new builds aren't delivering until Jan 2025. I'm waiting to see them all next to one another at an Overlanding Expo, but they and M1 are at the top of my list.

 

[simple]

The height of the center of gravity of a slide in pop top vs hard top doesn't apply across the board. Both are dependent on the weight distribution of how the interiors are built out. In theory a composite or composite sandwich panel shell can have a lower center of gravity than a comparable slide in pop top.

 

[JaSAn]

. . . In theory a composite or composite sandwich panel shell can have a lower center of gravity than a comparable slide in pop top.

Probably true in theory (at least until someone builds a composite pop-up), but I doubt it ever is true in practice for equally equipped campers.

All hardside campers I have seen utilize the wall space next to the ceiling for cabinets. My Grandby has 0 mass at that height when top down. Anything on the roof of a hard side (solar panels, MaxxFan, etc.) have a ~28" longer moment arm to roll center axis .

 

[andy_b]

The height of the center of gravity of a slide in pop top vs hard top doesn't apply across the board. Both are dependent on the weight distribution of how the interiors are built out. In theory a composite or composite sandwich panel shell can have a lower center of gravity than a comparable slide in pop top.

This is exactly why we have no upper cabinets. When ITB did some initial design drawings for our camper, the COG was still just behind the cab and above the frame rails.

 

[rruff]

This is exactly why we have no upper cabinets. When ITB did some initial design drawings for our camper, the COG was still just behind the cab and above the frame rails.

Nothing but clothes, bedding, window covers and such above 3' off the floor.

This is something else that we seem to worry about too much... tip-over. The shell of most campers is pretty light, and if you avoid putting weight up high, the difference between a stand-up hardside and a popup is trivial. Maybe 1 degree difference in tipover angle? And this angle will usually be in the >40 degree range anyway, which is about double the point at which we will be induced to relieve our bowels with concern. Of course you can tip over with less angle (or even none) if you do stupid things like drive too fast and turn sharply uphill... but we are all smart enough not to do that...

 

[Photomike]

I was reading your initial post again, I noticed something that I missed the first time around.

It seems like you're considering shipping your unit, and if that's a priority for you, it might be worth measuring the height for shipping the truck with the camper on it. This detail could be crucial in deciding between a pop-up camper and a hard-sided one. While you could ship them separately, removing the camper from the truck, I personally think that would be quite a hassle.

 

[Mack M]

How much do you want to spend? The higher end pop-ups are really nice and do well in the cold. They aren't as quit as a hard side but they are easy better than FWC. But you're going to be pushing $60k for a new one. $40K for a used one. We love our OEV but to order the same camper today is $18k more then we paid for ours. That's enough to be a deal breaker for us.

The only security benefit of a hard side is you can get in your truck and drive without having to lower the top. I suppose a person could climb on the hood and try to get in a soft top but they would make a lot of noise. If a bear wants in it's getting in. We have some friends that live in the mountains and a bear ripped the door off their Subaru trying to get a ChapStick their kid dropped between the seats.

$18K for a total composite shell and maybe another $10K for build out would be pretty sweet if you can live with the height.

Yeah the goal was to be under $35k for the camper in total. That OEV rig is nice, I've been eyeing them from afar, and Desk To Glory seems to enjoy theirs and they have been driving all over Europe and Morocco. they are definitely pricey though thanks for your input!

 

[Mack M]

It seems like wind load is the only major con for hard-sided that people have found (other than weight). Is that right? It seems like weight could be taken care of with a bigger truck (350-450 or equivalent).

As for lowing the height of a TC box, that sounds good in theory if you're a shorter person (like me), but it would also lower the (already low) cab-over height to make it even more coffin like.

Right, that's a great point, I think one would need full height.

 

[Mack M]

Had many pop ups.. we think the hardside is the way to go if you want warmth and security. Hard to stealth camping pop up. Quray CO don’t like us popped in town.

Yeah that is a big part of the desire for hard side, I go to the 4th in Ouray and stay in front of a friends house and wouldn't want to be hassled. Thanks!

 

[Mack M]

I was reading your initial post again, I noticed something that I missed the first time around.

It seems like you're considering shipping your unit, and if that's a priority for you, it might be worth measuring the height for shipping the truck with the camper on it. This detail could be crucial in deciding between a pop-up camper and a hard-sided one. While you could ship them separately, removing the camper from the truck, I personally think that would be quite a hassle.

Thank you, yep, that has been considered, and I do intend to ship it several times, with a FWC or other similar pop top, it will fit, but with the Total Composites, I'd have to pull it off, and use a 40' container. I'd also have to account for bringing the jacks with me and stored so that when I do ship, I can take the camper off, which is another con. I could also just RORO it, but I know people have had bad luck with that from a security standpoint.