Total Composites and Ventilation

[danneskjold]

I don’t have any alternatives, but I would avoid the Tern wildlands door at all costs.

Mine has been closed and latched, but not locked, and swung open on the freeway a couple of times. I now drive with it locked, but it’s an extra step and annoying to have to do.

Additionally, there is no shade for the giant window on it and people can see straight in at night. I ended up putting a sheet of reflectix on it, but now can’t see out at all.

When I contact their CS about the door opening on me their “CEO” was pretty rude and told me, unprompted, I could just return the door for a refund. Keep in mind the door is silkaflexed into my camper so would need to be cut out.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

There is a great deal to be said about "tight" homes, that also apply to campers.
And I dont doubt one bit that a composite panel cabin with all the good windows and doors being absolutely tight.
Unless managed correctly, air quality can be a huge problem. From moisture/mold issues to perhaps even O2 levels if left closed off long enough.

Hard to see, but our camper includes a vent that is for the most part open to outside at all times.
It is located in the cabover (highest point of ceiling) and it the highest point of the camper itself.
Its nothing more than a modified Broan roof vent cap, with a small CPU fan on a switch, and in interior cover we use during high wind or whenever we feel the need to block it off.
Super simple and goes a LONG way in managing interior air quality, primarily moisture, even when off. Also helps exhaust heat during the warmer months.

No dust issues to speak of, and built/installed in a way that even with 12+ inches of snow on the roof no leaks.

634 | Steel Roof Cap, 3-1/4-Inch x 10-Inch or Up to 8-Inch Round Duct, Black

Broan-NuTone® Steel Roof Cap, 3-1/4-Inch x 10-Inch or Up to 8-Inch Round Duct, Black

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Kenny, as always, thank you for a fantastically pragmatic response!

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

I don’t have any alternatives, but I would avoid the Tern wildlands door at all costs.

Mine has been closed and latched, but not locked, and swung open on the freeway a couple of times. I now drive with it locked, but it’s an extra step and annoying to have to do.

Additionally, there is no shade for the giant window on it and people can see straight in at night. I ended up putting a sheet of reflectix on it, but now can’t see out at all.

When I contact their CS about the door opening on me their “CEO” was pretty rude and told me, unprompted, I could just return the door for a refund. Keep in mind the door is silkaflexed into my camper so would need to be cut out.

I couldn't imagine not locking a door while in travel, and had planned to get the optional insulated curtain and possible a smaller curtain just for the window. But rude business owners are the worst!

 

[andy_b]

Thanks for this (and apologies in advance for the long response)!

Condensation…
Going with Total Composites

I agree it's a better move. I'm also looking at Bison Overland, who's switched from aluminum construction to composite (albeit with aluminum extrusions).

Simply put, I just don't have the time or skill to build a camper body myself.

And going with a lighter composite build means I can go with a smaller 1-ton truck platform, which has a lot of advantages: it can fit in a normal parking space, they're more readily available, they're less expensive to purchase, and at lower mileage, they have tires that can be aired-down without need to convert to super-singles.

I also think it might actually be more economically feasible, as I could get an RV loan for a built-out TC box with much smaller payments than buying all the parts for DIY would cost me up-front.

Sorry I missed these questions but it seems like everyone else addressed them and provided really great solutions as well. Basically, you have to have some sort of ventilation - you can be creative about how you solve this problem based on your needs and travel areas.

The Arctic Tern windows are indeed a thermal bridge, but we have not had an issue, even in single digits (and even when we forgot the fan one night). There are better options, but our needs did not warrant their cost. Of course, when we saw @StenchRV’s build, the first (of many things) that we noticed was nicer was their Outbound windows.

Based on the size of your family, a 350/3500 will very likely be over loaded. A 550/5500 is the same footprint as the 350/3500 with a better turning radius. Their prices are virtually identical. Although singles are a pain, I am certain you’re planning on getting new wheels and tires for a 350/3500 series build anyway. All this to say, the larger platform will give you a lot more flexibility for carrying all of the stuff that makes trips fun.

 

[Alloy]

Sorry I missed these questions but it seems like everyone else addressed them and provided really great solutions as well. Basically, you have to have some sort of ventilation - you can be creative about how you solve this problem based on your needs and travel areas.

The Arctic Tern windows are indeed a thermal bridge, but we have not had an issue, even in single digits (and even when we forgot the fan one night). There are better options, but our needs did not warrant their cost. Of course, when we saw @StenchRV’s build, the first (of many things) that we noticed was nicer was their Outbound windows.

Based on the size of your family, a 350/3500 will very likely be over loaded. A 550/5500 is the same footprint as the 350/3500 with a better turning radius. Their prices are virtually identical. Although singles are a pain, I am certain you’re planning on getting new wheels and tires for a 350/3500 series build anyway. All this to say, the larger platform will give you a lot more flexibility for carrying all of the stuff that makes trips fun.

The F550 XLT (only) diesel (not gas) is available with twin (66gal) tanks plus 84" cab to axle

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Sorry I missed these questions but it seems like everyone else addressed them and provided really great solutions as well. Basically, you have to have some sort of ventilation - you can be creative about how you solve this problem based on your needs and travel areas.

The Arctic Tern windows are indeed a thermal bridge, but we have not had an issue, even in single digits (and even when we forgot the fan one night). There are better options, but our needs did not warrant their cost. Of course, when we saw @StenchRV’s build, the first (of many things) that we noticed was nicer was their Outbound windows.

Based on the size of your family, a 350/3500 will very likely be over loaded. A 550/5500 is the same footprint as the 350/3500 with a better turning radius. Their prices are virtually identical. Although singles are a pain, I am certain you’re planning on getting new wheels and tires for a 350/3500 series build anyway. All this to say, the larger platform will give you a lot more flexibility for carrying all of the stuff that makes trips fun.

I’ve spent two years trying to find a reasonably priced F-550.

While the price of a new one from the dealer is nearly identical, the used market is absurd.

You can find a bevy of used F-350 trucks with relative low miles. All of the F-550’s are in incredibly rough shape with really high miles, or basically new, and more than buying one direct from a dealership would cost.

Plus the 350 is available in SRW without needing to convert the DRW tires to expensive military grade super singles.

I’ve been pouring over the specs from Ford on payload capacity, talking to total composite builders about the dry weight of their completed campers, and doing the math on water and people, and all the stuff we would bring.

In an F-350 configured with max payload, we should have a comfortable margin.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

The F550 XLT (only) diesel (not gas) is available with twin (66gal) tanks plus 84" cab to axle

“Available” in the sense that they exist.

Trying to find one that isn’t well over $100,000 or utterly destroyed inside with crazy high miles has proven impossible for me over the last two years.

I’ve been looking constantly.

 

[Alloy]

I was chatting with a Total Composites build partner about a potential build out, and mentioned leaving my dog in the camper (with AC) while exploring places.

They mentioned that TC boxes are so well sealed that you need some form of ventilation if you're going to do that, or the occupants will suffocate.

Is that right? Does that mean you essentially always need a window open or some type of air exchange happening, even in the winter? Because, frankly, that sounds terrifying.

There's Overland EX and Proghorn EV (ex Total Composite builder).

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There's also Motocraft for doors/ windows

Motorcraft Overland Accessories

Motorcraft Overland Accessories - Provider of British-manufactured components for professional and self-build expedition vehicle producers.

www.motorcraftoa.com

After spending the $$ on s SIP box using alum. framed door/windows is like putting summer tires on a 4x4......just my $0.000002

 

[andy_b]

…

In an F-350 configured with max payload, we should have a comfortable margin…

In my experience, you are going to be surprised. It will not be the end of the world, but it will be a lot more than you’re planning for.

 

[Alloy]

“Available” in the sense that they exist.

Trying to find one that isn’t well over $100,000 or utterly destroyed inside with crazy high miles has proven impossible for me over the last two years.

I’ve been looking constantly.

Brand new F550 XLT diesel 4x4 in Canada are $100,000 ($75,000USD)

My buddy just bought a 2019 with 56k miles for $52,000US

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Brand new F550 XLT diesel 4x4 in Canada are $100,000 ($75,000USD)

My buddy just bought a 2019 with 56k miles for $52,000US

I understand what the list price is. I've built one out a bunch of times. But, at least here in the US, you're waiting a year for a new and paying a hefty "demand upcharge" if you buy new. Used ones (less than a year old) are selling for over $100k US. The used ones I'm seeing at the $50k price range with a crew cab and 4WD are 150k miles+.

Congrats for your friend, but I've been looking nearly every week for years and haven't found anything like that.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

In my experience, you are going to be surprised. It will not be the end of the world, but it will be a lot more than you’re planning for.

We do long road trips in a travel trailer right now, and I totally get how it adds up.

I actually think the harder thing will be finding one configured with the payload I'd need. Just did a quick search, and all of the $30-50k used ones have a scant 2900-3200lbs of payload. I assume finding one with the 4,200+ you can option them to will be near impossible or $$$.

 

[andy_b]

We do long road trips in a travel trailer right now, and I totally get how it adds up.

I actually think the harder thing will be finding one configured with the payload I'd need. Just did a quick search, and all of the $30-50k used ones have a scant 2900-3200lbs of payload. I assume finding one with the 4,200+ you can option them to will be near impossible or $$$.

Which brings us back to my original point - buy once, cry once. There is a reason why completed campers with the capability we’re looking for cost as much as they do.

I have never seen any configuration of an F350 that gets you more than 4200lbs. Our Total Composites box, fully loaded with 3 people (one child) and two dogs is about 4000lbs.

An interesting experiment would be to weigh your trailer plus passengers. I bet that the TC (or similar) camper, once completed, will be similar.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Which brings us back to my original point - buy once, cry once. There is a reason why completed campers with the capability we’re looking for cost as much as they do.

I have never seen any configuration of an F350 that gets you more than 4200lbs. Our Total Composites box, fully loaded with 3 people (one child) and two dogs is about 4000lbs.

An interesting experiment would be to weigh your trailer plus passengers. I bet that the TC (or similar) camper, once completed, will be similar.

Just to be clear: I wasn't looking for more than 4,200 lbs payload. That's about the max I've seen listed in the Ford spec sheet for a SRW crew cab long bed.

I appreciate you sharing your real world number, though! I'd imagine the numbers I've seen from TC are "optimistic".

And of course after ranting about not being able to find a decent truck, I just stumbled upon a crew cab F-550 that already has super singles on it. Commercial use, though... diesel with 150k miles on. I realize that might just be a warm up for a diesel truck, though.

 

[Alloy]

I have never seen any configuration of an F350 that gets you more than 4200lbs.

They are stripped down XL with a 6.8Lgas.

Ford puts this at the bottom of every payload sheet.
"Payload capability will be reduced based on trim series, option content and passengers. See label on door jamb for carrying capacity of a specific vehicle"

The second sentence is the most important. My F450 lost 420lbs to options that weren't (5th wheel puck system & sway bars) optional. Brochure weight is 5,320 and the door sticker is 4,900lbs.