Towing a 16ft Airstream with a 4runner? Other alternatives?

[Porkchopexpress]

Umm again your inexperience with axle loads and trailers shows.

All SUVs especially reach max rear axle loads before they reach max pay load numbers. Unless!!! The Tow vehicle is typically empty then max trailer numbers typically fall within axle ratings. All passenger weights and gear weights especially behind the second row most definitely impact rear axle loading.

Again, your personal attacks on my experience or reading comprehension are unnecessary and divisive. I take no offense at different opinions but do not appreciate insults. I have extensive trailering experience.
Weight distribution hitches distribute trailer weight to the front axle. Tongue weight is measured on the hitch completely independent of the tow vehicle or it's weight distribution between axles. Therefore my comment of vehicle cargo not affecting tongue weight is 100% accurate

Also... again, I used 15% in my calculation, not 10.

Also, part of my real world experience is in the tow vehicle the OP is asking about. I have first hand knowledge how it handles loaded with different weights. I have backed up my experience with photos of the user manual that show 3500 well within tow capacity. That is all I can offer so I won't waste anyone's time on this any further

 

[bkg]

The actual weight of my truck is irrelevant because it isn't stock. The published weights are what matter and that is what I referenced. 4runner has a 5000 lb tow rating which you can read off the picture from my owners manual above. My calculations push up against the max capacity because I used max capacity of 5k in my calculations. The Bambi at it's max capacity is 1500 lbs less so it is well within practical limits.

 

[nickw]

The actual weight of my truck is irrelevant because it isn't stock. The published weights are what matter and that is what I referenced. 4runner has a 5000 lb tow rating which you can read off the picture from my owners manual above. My calculations push up against the max capacity because I used max capacity of 5k in my calculations. The Bambi at it's max capacity is 1500 lbs less so it is well within practical limits.

Are you referring to hitch weight? My actual hitch is like 30 lbs. If you have a wd setup, that would reduce tongue weight not add to it.

Edit: I think that I understand your post now. You are probably correct about 500 lbs max tongue weight and that is probably why Toyota recommends a WD hitch. So I have probably over loaded my receiver and or rear axle by not using one.

Hitch weight has nothing to do with the back seat. You guys are really reaching now.

Did you even read the owners manual I posted? It shows everything plain as day. It even gives a luggage compartment capacity of 970 lbs if you are worried about behind the seat.

Maybe we are talking past each other.....

The hitch / receiver attached to vehicle doesn't eat into Payload, but the WD hitch will.

Towing capacity is rarely a limiting factor on any vehicle, it's generally payload, per all the math we've been chatting about above.

I'd agree with @calicamper, the "luggage" payload capacity is probably more relevant to towing TW / payload and probably aligns with rear GAWR, since Payload most likely allows some weight for people.....1165 - 970 = 195, which seems about right for a person!

 

[Porkchopexpress]

Summary for posterity:

4runner example: 2018 TRD Off Road, no sunroof
Weight claimed by manufacturer: 4675
Max GVWR: 6300
-Front axle: 3000
-Rear axle: 3450
Max load assuming stock weight: 1625
Vehicle capacity weight, (defined as occupants + luggage): 835
Max tow: 5000

Therefore, you can add 790, (1625-835) worth of accessories like rock sliders or whatever plus tongue weight before eating into your vehicle capacity weight, 835.
If you tow over 2000 lbs, a weight distribution hitch is recommended. A wd hitch will distribute the trailer tongue weight more evenly between the tow vehicles front and rear axle. Without a wd hitch, all the tongue weight is on the rear axle and the front axle load actually becomes lighter.

Most of these numbers can be referenced in the user manual I posted previously.

 

[nickw]

Summary for posterity:

4runner example: 2018 TRD Off Road, no sunroof
Weight claimed by manufacturer: 4675
Max GVWR: 6300
-Front axle: 3000
-Rear axle: 3450
Max load assuming stock weight: 1625
Vehicle capacity weight, (defined as occupants + luggage): 835
Max tow: 5000

Therefore, you can add 790, (1625-835) worth of accessories like rock sliders or whatever plus tongue weight before eating into your vehicle capacity weight, 835.
If you tow over 2000 lbs, a weight distribution hitch is recommended. A wd hitch will distribute the trailer tongue weight more evenly between the tow vehicles front and rear axle. Without a wd hitch, all the tongue weight is on the rear axle and the front axle load actually becomes lighter.

Most of these numbers can be referenced in the user manual I posted previously.

I know you are pulling numbers out of the manual which seem "official" - but you need to be careful with how you are interpreting.

Max load is based on door sticker...you can't just ignore that.

Also you need to be wary of rear axle GAWR, you are likely going to hit that before you max out payload.

Toyota / all manuf can get a bit creative in what they assume are in the numbers especially when you start talking how they factor in driver, fuel, fluids etc. I do believe curb weight includes fuel but not driver. I do believe Payload ACCOUNTS for driver (and maybe passenger) and absolutely takes into account all your OEM options.

So you can hang your hat on the numbers in the manual or you can go measure the weight of the rig, front & rear, then get into the math and work with real numbers.

It's confusing - trust me, I dealt with the same learning curve trying to figure all this out too.

 

[tlrols]

The contrast between this thread and truck camper threads I have read is hilarious. Usually I read comments like "Toyota under estimates payload, just add airbags" or "the only difference between a 3/4 and 1 ton is the leaf springs", or "payload ratings are only enforced on commercial traffic".
Here the OP is asking if a 4 runner can tow a 16 foot airstream, (spoiler, it can) and most comments are saying to go with a full size pickup instead. I agree the full size would pull it better but to claim a 4runner can't handle the load is a misstatement of fact.


Diesel engine for a bambi? Really!?

Drive much in the mountains? I do. I pulled a 2200 pound Aframe trailer with a 3.4 liter 3rd Gen 4Runner. Not at all fun. I am sporting 4.88 gears in it as well. I now have a V8 4th Gen 4Runner. Incredible difference.

If it’s all flat then sure a V6 4Runner will move it well enough. Throw in some mountains and it won’t be a relaxing experience. Make the drive over the divide at Butte Montana towing that “Bambi” with a V6 4Runner and report back your experience. The Airstreams are actually pretty heavy rigs empty. Add cargo and gear and you run up the weight fast. I might consider strapping a Bambi to my V8 Runner but I would rather pull it with a Tundra. Or pull out my ancient J10 Jeep Gladiator and drive slow.

 

[tlrols]

Two choices in 4Runner I own and use heavily in Idaho, Montana, Oregon, and Washington.

Red pill or Gray pill? Take the Gray one. The 50% towing notion is a sound one. Consider the fact that a 4Runner weighs 4500 pounds in its V6 form. Doubling that weight with a trailer is fine on the flats. Drive it up to 8,000 feet on a dubious “road” and you will be joining the 50% towing weight crew I imagine.

 

[tlrols]

If you’re living out of a truck and trailer everything you have is packed with you.

He doesn’t have a 4Runner yet.

Why should he limit himself to a 4 runner when typical half tons are the same price. The 4 runner won’t do anything better than a half ton.

This! I am a mad fan of the 4Runner ( I own two of them). However, if I was towing what the OP asked about I would skip the Toyota tax and look at a domestic 1/2 ton or bigger. Or pay the Toyota tax on a Tundra. If he really wants a 4Runner then the only sound choice is a 4th Gen V8. It’s a modest V8 at 4.7 liters but it sure is smooth and durable.

 

[tlrols]

Umm again your inexperience with axle loads and trailers shows.

All SUVs especially reach max rear axle loads before they reach max pay load numbers. Unless!!! The Tow vehicle is typically empty then max trailer numbers typically fall within axle ratings. All passenger weights and gear weights especially behind the second row most definitely impact rear axle loading.

A buddy has a nice setup in his 4runner the rear equipment, organizer etc when pulled out and run over a scale so he could order custom made springs was 250lbs behind the 2nd row seat. That 250lbs gets pulled off his max rear axle weight meaning in real life with his use he can only run 200-230lbs trailer tongue weight. And since he is trailer skilled he also knows that the type of trailer he likes (typically runs 18% ish tongue weigh) means realistically his max trailer weight is 1800-2000lbs. Not to mention the last trip I did with him. He was banging up against his cooling limits in hot 105 degree temps in an area we were going through and called me to say he’d see us in a bit that he could only run 60mph or he was getting heat spikes on his cooling that couldn’t keep up.

So you can preach basic, basic very generic example numbers while the rest of us with real experience will stick to the well known 50/80 rule. Max dry weight 50% or Less your max. And when loaded 80% or less your max is what experienced people especially RV types shoot for. You either start off that way because you valued the suggestions from experienced people or you eventually end up there after learning it your self by discovering reality doesn’t match basic general bare minimum 10% tongue weight figures. No one runs 10% by the way. No one!!!

I use a Weigh-Safe hitch on my 4Runner. Even with a really modest weight trailer (2200 lbs empty) I blow up the tongue/hitch weight around 260 to 350 pounds. I move stuff around to dial in the weight for towing. Tow a trailer and it’s like a bin for stuff…as it should be. The OP will be at 5,000 pounds in that Bambi without even trying.

 

[Gravelette]

Summary for posterity:

4runner example: 2018 TRD Off Road, no sunroof
Weight claimed by manufacturer: 4675
Max GVWR: 6300
-Front axle: 3000
-Rear axle: 3450
Max load assuming stock weight: 1625
Vehicle capacity weight, (defined as occupants + luggage): 835
Max tow: 5000

Therefore, you can add 790, (1625-835) worth of accessories like rock sliders or whatever plus tongue weight before eating into your vehicle capacity weight, 835.

This is incorrect. The 835# is your payload. Payload includes tongue weight of trailer, hitch, cargo, occupants and any accessories you've added. Spec tongue weight for the Bambi is 430# and the required WDH will be another 100#. OP would have to pack light.

 

[Porkchopexpress]

This is incorrect. The 835# is your payload. Payload includes tongue weight of trailer, hitch, cargo, occupants and any accessories you've added. Spec tongue weight for the Bambi is 430# and the required WDH will be another 100#. OP would have to pack light.

No, it is occupants plus luggage. That number is never referred to as payload anywhere on my door or owners manual.



Then read the tongue weight calculation. It only references Gross vehicle weight

 

[Porkchopexpress]

I use a Weigh-Safe hitch on my 4Runner. Even with a really modest weight trailer (2200 lbs empty) I blow up the tongue/hitch weight around 260 to 350 pounds. I move stuff around to dial in the weight for towing. Tow a trailer and it’s like a bin for stuff…as it should be. The OP will be at 5,000 pounds in that Bambi without even trying.

If he goes over 3500 lbs in the Bambi then he is exceeding the trailers max weight. That is a whole other issue

 

[Porkchopexpress]

Drive much in the mountains? I do. I pulled a 2200 pound Aframe trailer with a 3.4 liter 3rd Gen 4Runner. Not at all fun. I am sporting 4.88 gears in it as well. I now have a V8 4th Gen 4Runner. Incredible difference.

If it’s all flat then sure a V6 4Runner will move it well enough. Throw in some mountains and it won’t be a relaxing experience. Make the drive over the divide at Butte Montana towing that “Bambi” with a V6 4Runner and report back your experience. The Airstreams are actually pretty heavy rigs empty. Add cargo and gear and you run up the weight fast. I might consider strapping a Bambi to my V8 Runner but I would rather pull it with a Tundra. Or pull out my ancient J10 Jeep Gladiator and drive slow.

5th gen v6 was designed to replace the V8. Plenty of torque for 3500 lb trailer

 

[tlrols]

If he goes over 3500 lbs in the Bambi then he is exceeding the trailers max weight. That is a whole other issue

That’s a problem with all trailers. They load up fast.

 

[tlrols]

5th gen v6 was designed to replace the V8. Plenty of torque for 3500 lb trailer

The 4.0 liter wasn’t a replacement for the V8 since they offered both in the 4th gens. It was a choice and sadly Toyota stopped offering the choice so the 5th gens got just the 4.0 liter. The 4.0 liter replaces the 3.4 liter. Both the 3.4 and 4.0 are fine motors but neither are well suited to towing at capacity, in the mountains.

The bottom line is that the 4Runner is not an optimal towing rig if you tow at rated capacity. If the OP wants a 4Runner for towing then the V8 would be a better choice as evidenced by how Toyota equipped it with towing related equipment.

Toyota makes equipment purpose built for towing and they call it the Tundra. Aside from the cost of the thing, the Tundra might be a better choice since he wants to live in the trailer.

I still love my 4 Runners but only one of them is good at towing and frankly it’s just better to stay well under the rated capacity no matter what you drive.