trailer axle to passenger wheel question....

[SgtVeXX]

So I have an M416 that I put a dexter 3500lb axle with the same bolt pattern as my 4runner so spare tires can be used interchangeably. My question is, since the hole in the center of my 4runner wheel is bigger than the hub of the axle will that put too much strain on the lug bolts? Is there a spacer I can put on the axle so the truck size center hole matches with the trailer hub? or are the lug bolts supposed to be holding all the weight? Complete newbie here when it comes to this stuff. Here is a pic for clarification...

 

[davis31052]

I ran into this on my Bantam trailer build. Same Dexter axle but 2016 4 Runner wheels. In order to run those wheels you need the lug nuts on the left in the attached pic. These shank style lugs pass thru the wheel and help center it in the hub. I don't know of a hub-centric ring available to go between the Dexter hub and the Toyota wheel. A local machine shop might be able to mill some for you. I decided to forgo a ring and let the lugs center the wheel. I believe any run- out would be negligible.

Be sure to get the right length for the thickness of the wheel. Otherwise the lug will bottom out on the hub face before the wheel is tight, and they are a pain to get lined up. You probably won't be able to install the Toyota center caps as the bearing cover on the Dexter axle is too tall.

Good luck with your build.

 

[Louisd75]

Spidertrax makes a wheel spacer that allows you to convert the hub from lug centric to hub centric. Only downside is that it moves each wheel 2" outboard. Not a big deal if you haven't ordered your axle yet, might be an issue if you have.

 

[workingonit71]

does it need a hub-centric spacer?

I was a car guy, back in the day, old-school throw it together and run what you brung. Nobody I knew matched hubs to wheels on our cars, and nobody ever lost a wheel. Not even in 9-10 second 1/4 mile racing. As long as the wheel studs were up to spec, and the (my hidden, flat,no lugs) wheel spacer went unnoticed in the tech inspection, we were good up to 9 flat. Going further back, I was like thousands of others, who ran with Cragar SS multi-fit wheels, made to fit on all 5-stud hubs, from 4.5" to 5" bolt pattern. Use the offset washer, center the wheel, torque 'em down, and run. Since those wheels were meant to fit many brands of cars, the hub center size wasn't a factor. And when I went to using racing specific wheels (Weld, Centerline, Cragar Quick-Trick), they were lug-centric as well. Only thing I ever made sure of, was that the lug studs were strong enough, in good shape, torqued properly, and the lug nut design matched the wheel (conical for some, flat with washer for others. On my first trailer axle, I replaced the original 4-lug hub (8" tire) with a 5-lug (stub & bearing & hub assembly) to go to a 14" tire. I added two 1.25" spacer/adapters to clear the frame rails, and torqued/loctited the spacers to the hubs. I must've put 1k miles on the trailer, always checking lug nut torque (between trips), and had no problems with lug-centricity. With my new 3500 lb axle, I didn't need the spacers, and the wheels are still not needing a hub-centric spacer. It's up to the operator whether or not to trust either system, but, I feel that the hub-centricity movement has come from those that drift-race their cars, putting excess side loading on the wheels that other users may not ever do to theirs. Anyway, here's one maker of hub-centric spacers :

 

[SgtVeXX]

So what I gather is I should be fine with this setup for an offroad trailer just need to pick up some new lug nuts and deal with it being a bit of a pain to align? Any big worries about using regular truck rims and tires? The tire I have mounted in the pic is my spare off the 4runner and I have plenty of clearence everywhere. So I was just going to buy 3 wheels with tires and tell them it needs to fit a 2004 4runner and I'd be good if I got 2 flats on the truck or the trailer.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[HuntfishcampXJRay]

I wish that I had your problem. My Jeep wheel center is to small for my hub. Having to wait 10 days for a custom spacer. Anyway, I too started out building and racing cars and fully agree with Workingonit71.
We as racers never dealt with hub centric and lug centric issues. There is no real strain on the axle or trailer. So I say center them up, torque em down, and keep it moving.

 

[millerfish]

Many vehicals much heavier than your trailer are lug centric. I have run the same wheel and tire as my truck on my trailer for a long time and have had zero issues. You MUST use the correct lugs for the rim you are mounting! What I see in the photo is not good. This puts the sheer point way to far from the hub face allowing the lugs flex and bend, it will also damage the rim. You want a mag style lug nut that when installed comes as close the the hub face as possible and fits the hole diameter properly. The link below has some good lug nut info and good prices also. I would suggest replacing the lugs to match the truck and use the same lug nuts on everything. I an adverse situation everything matching eleminates potential problems. Even my spare carriers have matching lug nuts...

http://www.prestigewheel.com/mainnuts.htm

 

[PacificNorthWestJeeper]

Yes your studs hold the load however the gap is NOT a good thing.
What you need is what is called a 'hub centric spacer', preferably the aluminum ones, more expensive but hold up much better.
The reason for the hub centric spacer is to center the wheel on the axle, without this you could have vibration since the wheel may not center itself when you bolt it up.
There are many sizes available online as well as several companies that will make custom sizes for you. If you end up with the aluminum ones as I recommend and am using on my build, make sure you use anti-seize lube on them.
Good luck....

So I have an M416 that I put a dexter 3500lb axle with the same bolt pattern as my 4runner so spare tires can be used interchangeably. My question is, since the hole in the center of my 4runner wheel is bigger than the hub of the axle will that put too much strain on the lug bolts? Is there a spacer I can put on the axle so the truck size center hole matches with the trailer hub? or are the lug bolts supposed to be holding all the weight? Complete newbie here when it comes to this stuff. Here is a pic for clarification...

 

[azscotts]

In short, I don't see how it would hurt.

The Toyota wheels are lug-centric. Which means they are using the lug nuts to center the wheel in balance on the mounting surface. Hub-centric uses the hub to center the wheel. Anyone with a 3rd generation 4Runner knows some of the hassle we go through with proper wheel balance, etc. because most of the big box tire stores don't use a lug-centric mounting when they mount them to the spin balance machine.

As for weight, The weight is distributed between 6 lug nuts and studs. The weight you are talking about supporting with this lug-centric mounting isn't that much (max would be 1,750 per wheel on a 3,500lb axle)wheel is comparable to the weight it would support on your 4Runner.

The hubs use the standard 1/2" studs to mount those, just like your tow vehicle. I don't see it being much of an issue.

Make sure you are using the flanged lug nuts to mount those to the trailer. DON"T USE THE ACORN STYLE LUGS! They will not distribute the load like the flanged lugs.

In fact, I would get the lug nuts from Toyota. The studs should be standard thread.

 

[jwiereng]

azscotts,

I have doubt that you could use Toyota nuts. Toyota nuts are M12x1.5 Trailer are likely 1/2-20

 

[Rbertalotto]

Studs only hold part of the load. Very little in fact. Themajority of the load is held by the friction of the wheel held tight against the hub. Therefore proper torque and proper lug nuts is extremely important.
Be careful with wheel spacers as they move the moment arm in ways that might load the wheel bearings in ways they weren't designed. Good luck!

 

[jwiereng]

I think spacers on a trailer that uses truck wheels is probably not going to bother the bearings too much.

Trailer wheels offer have very small backspacing compared to truck wheels.

Spacers would reduce effective backspacing on truck wheels.

Additionally trailer bearings are cheap an easy to replace.

Also trailers are probably experiencing less usage / mileage than truck.

 

[billiebob]

how do you guys find these 3 year old threads ?

 

[jwiereng]

Search.

It is a hurdle that I am working though on my own trailer.

 

[billiebob]

ahhh.... but you responded to a 3 year old reply.

This is the answer
With Mags get lug nuts with the shoulder, use the lug nuts the alloy rims came with.
With steelies, get old fashioned tapered lug nuts. You can get them acorn style too.
Hub/Lug centric is not an issue.