Trucks with well over 4000# payload...

[Tex68w]

I agree, if it's just you most of the time or you and a dog or occasionally another person then I see no reason to buy a crew cab which will be longer, heavier and have less payload. RAM doesn't offer a Super Cab/Extended Cab like Ford so if you find yourself wanting more in cab room than the 6-10" behind the seat in a single cab then RAM is out altogether. Simple decisions like that can really help you narrow down what exactly it is you're looking for in a hurry and that's a start in this process.

 

[rruff]

2017+ F-350 pickup trucks and 2017+ F-450 pickup trucks have a fully boxed frame which have greater stiffness than chassis trucks of the same years and models.

Pretty sure only F250s and 350s are fully boxed! The 450 has an open C frame like the 550.

And a good point your mentioned, you need to get the F350 with the bed, not the chassis-cab model!

 

[Explorerinil]

I ran through the numbers on the dodge yesterday and it was 82k +tax/fees (crew cab long box, SRW, high output diesel with aisin trans, bighorn package etc which was literally the only truck they had on site)
And judging by the “build my Ford” thing online it looks like 65kish for the MSRP for a super cab long box DRW 7.3L (I have to order it so I can order base trim package) but I haven’t had a chance to go to the Ford dealer and sit down with the guy since it’s Sunday today.
Am I missing something in the cost of the Ford? I’ve never bought a brand new vehicle

Ford has massive delays now and they arent dealing on new trucks like they did before this mess. I’ve seen more ram trucks on the lots than ford, however I’m sure they aren’t dealing. Can you wait a bit for supply to catch up? You’ll get a better deal, you should be able to get the ram you want for 60k or less.

FYI your dad is right, the drw will be allot more stable and will feel planted more, however they arent the truck you’ll want if your going off road or concerned about ease of parking, I owned a drw ram for 4 years, loved it for towing and hauling and general traveling on vacation, but not for any off-road scenario.

 

[1000arms]

Pretty sure only F250s and 350s are fully boxed! The 450 has an open C frame like the 550.

And a good point your mentioned, you need to get the F350 with the bed, not the chassis-cab model!

It appears the 2017+ F-250, F-350, and F-450 pickup truck frames are fully boxed. The 2017+ F-350, F-450, and F-550 chassis truck frames aren't.

"FULLY BOXED HIGH-STRENGTH STEEL FRAME

The fully boxed frame, built of percent high-strength steel with up to 10 crossmembers, is 24 times stiffer than the previous design. The frame is designed to minimize flexing and twisting while maximizing strength and torsional rigidity, and serves as the foundation for the impressive towing and hauling capability of the Super Duty® .
*Max.payload rating of 7,850 lbs. available on F-350, Regular Cab 4x2, 6.2L gas. Max available gooseneck tow rating of 37,000 lbs. on F-450, Regular Cab, 4x2. Class is Full-Size Pickups over 8,500 lbs. GVWR." is from:

https://www.ford.com/trucks/super-duty/features/durability/

The F-350 pickup truck, with the pickup bed, will be a "complete vehicle" with the stiff fully-boxed frame.

 

[Grassland]

I've found in the middle of nowhere, or "Canada's **************" Manitoba, what the Ford build and price app says and what trucks will sell for on the lot are quite far apart.
I don't know what BC is like but here you have to look far and wide, luck out with the sales person, and know exactly what you want and what you can get it for and then try to play ball.
Otherwise the sales-folks will just show you the most expensive truck that sort of maybe kinda meets your requirements.
As mentioned this is not a good year for buying new as the factories have shortages so there is no selection nor motivation for sales staff or manufacturers to offer incentives.

Otherwise a factory order would be the way to go, order the options and trim you need, and nothing you don't.

 

[WindFromTheWest]

2021 F-350 DRW pickup trucks and 2021 F-450 DRW pickup trucks have a GVWR of 14,000 pounds in the US version and 6350 Kg in the Canadian version (about 13,970 pounds).

Anything added to the truck cuts in to potential payload (because of the fixed GVWR). Super Cab instead of Regular Cab: less payload. Crew Cab: even less payload. Diesel instead of gas: less payload. F-450 pickup with heavier parts: less payload than a F-350. 4x4 has less payload than a 4x2.

........................................

2017+ F-350 pickup trucks and 2017+ F-450 pickup trucks have a fully boxed frame which have greater stiffness than chassis trucks of the same years and models.

This means that the above pickup truck frames will twist less than the chassis trucks. You will likely want to build your camper on a pickup truck to minimize flex in your camper.

........................................

It is probably easier for you to insure a pickup truck versus a chassis truck. The pickup truck with bed is a "completed vehicle" in the US. Does anyone know how Canada does this?



Nope! It is because you are still figuring out what you want to do, which means you are thinking about things, which is a good thing to do!




Before ordering a vehicle, get a printout of the build with the options you have chosen to confirm payload, especially if you order a SRW.

How wide a camper box? How tall? Fixed hard walls? Popup with hard walls? Popup with soft walls? Cabover section? If so, how long and how high?

Regular Cab, Super Cab, or Crew Cab? Long Bed or Short Bed?

SRW or DRW? The DRW will help with stability, especially if your camper is tall and wide (consider strong cross-blowing and gusting winds while driving (and camping).


And the above questions too.

I’m selling my house and building the camper to live in full time with my dog, all year round. So for simplicity sake we’ll say it’s 6’ wide, 9’ long plus a cab over section big enough for a double bed (which is why a single cab truck is sort of out of the question- also my dog rides in the backseat) and 6’ tall. Aluminum insulated paneling and welded aluminum frame. Shower/composting toilet/hot water/tiny woodstove, everything I can to make it more comfortable and a higher chance for long term success. Either sitting on a flat bed, or built onto the frame like the Earth Roamer (which the teeter totter style mount on rear to help with flexing?)
I would be happy with a DRW so that I’m not maxed out on my payload. I’m not a seasoned off-roader so I can’t see myself doing anything too crazy but I do want 4x4 etc for going in the bush, getting to trail heads and camp sites and I go hunting every year.

Ford has massive delays now and they arent dealing on new trucks like they did before this mess. I’ve seen more ram trucks on the lots than ford, however I’m sure they aren’t dealing. Can you wait a bit for supply to catch up? You’ll get a better deal, you should be able to get the ram you want for 60k or less.

FYI your dad is right, the drw will be allot more stable and will feel planted more, however they arent the truck you’ll want if your going off road or concerned about ease of parking, I owned a drw ram for 4 years, loved it for towing and hauling and general traveling on vacation, but not for any off-road scenario.

the problem with waiting is that it’s a good time to sell my house right now which means I need somewhere to live (and I don’t want to keep the house, I feel like it’s drowning me) and I have been dreaming about this camper for years. I mentally can’t wait any longer.. as dramatic as that is haha

 

[WindFromTheWest]

I agree, if it's just you most of the time or you and a dog or occasionally another person then I see no reason to buy a crew cab which will be longer, heavier and have less payload. RAM doesn't offer a Super Cab/Extended Cab like Ford so if you find yourself wanting more in cab room than the 6-10" behind the seat in a single cab then RAM is out altogether. Simple decisions like that can really help you narrow down what exactly it is you're looking for in a hurry and that's a start in this process.

It is just me and the dog for now but hopefully I won’t be alone forever haha. But I like having the dog secured in the backseat, and I think the extra storage would come in handy for things that don’t really have a home inside the camper like all my work tools/helmets. I’m leaning towards the super cab f-350. Just frustrating that the year I can finally make this happen financially and logistically there’s no vehicles around ?

 

[chet6.7]

It is nice to have the bigger cab for a climate controlled area for pets, I took my rear seat out for a pet carrier and some storage.

 

[WindFromTheWest]

Wait... are you sure theirs weighs 4,000 lbs? Where is that mentioned? I know the camper itself was very light...

You don't need DRW or a diesel. But I went back and looked and unless I missed it, you never said exactly what you plan to use this rig for. Full time living in the back country? A few camping trips per year, and staying in campgrounds? Just as a fun project? Just yourself... or how many? What sort of amenities and capabilities do you want? etc

They talk about their GVWR and weight at the 9:20 mark
Their build is incredibly similar to my plan, except they built theirs on a short bed truck for more nimble wheel base length. My camper will be 1 foot longer, but just one person and one dog in mine for the most part. 100% full time living, I work all over BC from way up north down to the island so I need all the amenities I can fit in it for my best chance of long term success. I do a ton of hiking so it just needs to be capable enough to get me to the trailheads.

 

[WindFromTheWest]

It is nice to have the bigger cab for a climate controlled area for pets, I took my rear seat out for a pet carrier and some storage.

Exactly my plan. Somewhere safe in the back for her. I don’t think dogs can travel in the camper legally either, but I could be wrong.

 

[GeorgeHayduke]

If you're going up hunting roads getting to trailheads or dealing with a lot of snow I'd stay away from a DRW. An aftermarket swaybar on a SRW can really help stabilize a camper.

Either the 6.7 Cummins or 7.3 Ford gasser are great choices. Deleting a new diesel isn't worth it to me because you'd lose that 100k mile warranty and resale would be impossible in my area. I've got 80k miles on a 2016 Cummins including emissions-intact tuning for 20k miles, and haven't had any emissions issues. I think there's a lot less benefit to deleting these days as compared to the 10 years ago.

The Ram you're looking at has the Aisin transmission and high output motor, but there's also the standard output motor with the 68RFE transmission which will save you ~$3k and a couple hundred pounds in payload. The Aisin is more of a medium duty transmission and drives differently, so drive both before making a decision if you can. I think the 10 speed Ford transmission is better than either slushbox offer by Ram right now.

If I was spec'ing out a new truck right now, my priorities would be to get factory LED headlights and a 50 gallon fuel tank for extra range and to run a heater in the camper. I think for Ram and Ford the big tank is only available from the factory with a crew cab long bed. You can retrofit larger tanks on a diesel but the EPA makes aftermarket gas tanks very difficult. I know you're thinking the crew cab is too big, but personally I think Ram's cab hits a nice sweet spot. The wheelbase on a Ram CCLB is only a couple inches longer than the extended cab Ford, and the Ram actually has a better turn radius.

 

[rruff]

They talk about their GVWR and weight at the 9:20 mark

Thanks! Guess they are pretty darn heavy. BTW, contrary to what they said, being over GVWR isn't illegal in the US. I don't know about Canada, though.

I’m selling my house and building the camper to live in full time with my dog, all year round. So for simplicity sake we’ll say it’s 6’ wide, 9’ long plus a cab over section big enough for a double bed (which is why a single cab truck is sort of out of the question- also my dog rides in the backseat) and 6’ tall. Aluminum insulated paneling and welded aluminum frame. Shower/composting toilet/hot water/tiny woodstove, everything I can to make it more comfortable and a higher chance for long term success. Either sitting on a flat bed, or built onto the frame like the Earth Roamer (which the teeter totter style mount on rear to help with flexing?)

I think you'll be fine with 4k lbs payload, even with lots of junk along. With the fully boxed frames we've been talking about you don't need a "teeter totter"; you can mount straight to the frame which is lighter and simpler. You'll gain stability and offroad ability by upgrading the suspension (more thinner leaves, good shocks, sway bars), and tires.

You'll want to make it at least 80" outside width (this is standard full size truck width), and probably 75" internal height so most people don't need to stoop. Also if you want decent head clearance in the sleeping berth, that'll lead you to a fairly tall internal height.

9' long on a 8' bed or 6.5'?

You can also have the bed stick into the main part of the cabin a bit, if that helps. That what I'm doing on mine; didn't want the cabover sticking past the top of the cab. That gives you a nice storage area low and forward as well.

 

[WindFromTheWest]

Thanks! Guess they are pretty darn heavy. BTW, contrary to what they said, being over GVWR isn't illegal in the US. I don't know about Canada, though.



I think you'll be fine with 4k lbs payload, even with lots of junk along. With the fully boxed frames we've been talking about you don't need a "teeter totter"; you can mount straight to the frame which is lighter and simpler. You'll gain stability and offroad ability by upgrading the suspension (more thinner leaves, good shocks, sway bars), and tires.

You'll want to make it at least 80" outside width (this is standard full size truck width), and probably 75" internal height so most people don't need to stoop. Also if you want decent head clearance in the sleeping berth, that'll lead you to a fairly tall internal height.

9' long on a 8' bed or 6.5'?

You can also have the bed stick into the main part of the cabin a bit, if that helps. That what I'm doing on mine; didn't want the cabover sticking past the top of the cab. That gives you a nice storage area low and forward as well.

9' long on an 8' bed (the rear foot of the camper actually goes up on a 45 degree angle so only 8 foot of the camper sits on the frame, extra cool points that way)
I think maybe I am overthinking it a lot and stressing about going over the legal payload, in reality no one will ever check, and I am sure the GVWR is rated for much less than the truck can actually handle.

If you're going up hunting roads getting to trailheads or dealing with a lot of snow I'd stay away from a DRW. An aftermarket swaybar on a SRW can really help stabilize a camper.

Either the 6.7 Cummins or 7.3 Ford gasser are great choices. Deleting a new diesel isn't worth it to me because you'd lose that 100k mile warranty and resale would be impossible in my area. I've got 80k miles on a 2016 Cummins including emissions-intact tuning for 20k miles, and haven't had any emissions issues. I think there's a lot less benefit to deleting these days as compared to the 10 years ago.

The Ram you're looking at has the Aisin transmission and high output motor, but there's also the standard output motor with the 68RFE transmission which will save you ~$3k and a couple hundred pounds in payload. The Aisin is more of a medium duty transmission and drives differently, so drive both before making a decision if you can. I think the 10 speed Ford transmission is better than either slushbox offer by Ram right now.

If I was spec'ing out a new truck right now, my priorities would be to get factory LED headlights and a 50 gallon fuel tank for extra range and to run a heater in the camper. I think for Ram and Ford the big tank is only available from the factory with a crew cab long bed. You can retrofit larger tanks on a diesel but the EPA makes aftermarket gas tanks very difficult. I know you're thinking the crew cab is too big, but personally I think Ram's cab hits a nice sweet spot. The wheelbase on a Ram CCLB is only a couple inches longer than the extended cab Ford, and the Ram actually has a better turn radius.

It seems that almost all used diesels in my area are deleted, especially cause its very "oil patchy" around here, I try to avoid anything thats been chipped and tuned because I assume it's being driven like crap after that.

That dodge with the high ouput 6.7 and the aisin is basically the only one in the province, so I'm not sure I'd be able to find the standard output one to compare, and I'd be willing to bet that cummins will be sold by the end of the week for sure. He was able to find me a hemi CCLB 3500 SRW, again he says its the only one in BC (salesman talk, but I'm sure with the current vehicle shortage he's not far off) for 73k (10k less than the cummins, for no added payload as far as I can tell with the dodge spec sheet linked on page 2 of this thread)

The cummins I test drove had the LED lights, a 36 gallon? (140 Liter-ish) tank, some upgraded suspension stuff for fifth wheels. It's just So. Much. Money... But I don't even know if a gas ford would be any cheaper by the time I actually got my hands on it.

As far as DRW in the snow, I hunt in October so there isn't usually any snow yet, when there's lots on the roads I just stay indoors until things are plowed, but I have heard that they suck in mud/snow. I assume the camper weight would help a little though, I always had sand bags in the back of my dodge in Fort St John in the winter.

 

[GeorgeHayduke]

9' long on an 8' bed (the rear foot of the camper actually goes up on a 45 degree angle so only 8 foot of the camper sits on the frame, extra cool points that way)
I think maybe I am overthinking it a lot and stressing about going over the legal payload, in reality no one will ever check, and I am sure the GVWR is rated for much less than the truck can actually handle.

It seems that almost all used diesels in my area are deleted, especially cause its very "oil patchy" around here, I try to avoid anything thats been chipped and tuned because I assume it's being driven like crap after that.

That dodge with the high ouput 6.7 and the aisin is basically the only one in the province, so I'm not sure I'd be able to find the standard output one to compare, and I'd be willing to bet that cummins will be sold by the end of the week for sure. He was able to find me a hemi CCLB 3500 SRW, again he says its the only one in BC (salesman talk, but I'm sure with the current vehicle shortage he's not far off) for 73k (10k less than the cummins, for no added payload as far as I can tell with the dodge spec sheet linked on page 2 of this thread)

The cummins I test drove had the LED lights, a 36 gallon? (140 Liter-ish) tank, some upgraded suspension stuff for fifth wheels. It's just So. Much. Money... But I don't even know if a gas ford would be any cheaper by the time I actually got my hands on it.

As far as DRW in the snow, I hunt in October so there isn't usually any snow yet, when there's lots on the roads I just stay indoors until things are plowed, but I have heard that they suck in mud/snow. I assume the camper weight would help a little though, I always had sand bags in the back of my dodge in Fort St John in the winter.

Right, the GVWR on the diesel SRW CCLB is 12300 lbs and on the gasser it's 11400 lbs so the stickered payload comes out the same.

The safe usable payload gets argued ad naseum but in the states, what actually matters legally to the Dept of Transportation are axle weight ratings and tire weight ratings. On a SRW the tire is usually the limiting factor. Your camper will add weight primarily to the rear axle. Good load range E tires these days have a 4000 lbs rating per tire and your empty weight on the rear axle will be about 3000 lbs, effectively giving you an actual 5000 lbs payload.

The Aisin transmission is super robust so if you don't mind its shift patterns I wouldn't let it stop you.

 

[ukrboy]

Have you looked in Alberta? Won’t be too much work to bring it over.