Turbo time update with Pics!

[G-force]

That forum is where you want to be for tons of knowledge about MB diesels. The general consensus on that forum is that you are not going to make a lot more horsepower with the 617 turbo without a lot of $$. You can turn up the ALDA but without putting on a bigger turbo and an IP which sends more fuel, you're pretty limited.

Are you sure that this is the right information?

The reason for me to ask this, is that i do belive that this is not correct. A friend of mine is running a OM617A in his G-wagon. The only thing he has done to his engine, besides a total rebuild and an intercooler, is to give the engine some more diesel. This is done by replacing the pistons in the diesel pump, with some slightly oversize ones. Of course, the pump is then timed and adjusted by qualified mechanics. He is taking out a wopping 280 hp!! And this is with the original turbo. It is the next item to be swapped out, for a bigger one, but this is because the origintal turbo takes a beating, when you charge it with about 2 bars.
It is possible to take out about 335 hp from the OM617A by this method, but the original automatic gearbox can`t handle more than about 280. The manual gearbox can take even less.

Check out these videos. He runs 39 inch tires, and axelerates from 40 to 90 km/h in about 7-8 sekonds. And in the sekond video, you can see that he does not have a problem with turbo lag:bike_rider:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X6NlIP-29E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDpN2NHl3qo

If i can raise the cash, this is to be done to my G as well.

 

[kerry]

Are you sure that this is the right information?

The reason for me to ask this, is that i do belive that this is not correct. A friend of mine is running a OM617A in his G-wagon. The only thing he has done to his engine, besides a total rebuild and an intercooler, is to give the engine some more diesel. This is done by replacing the pistons in the diesel pump, with some slightly oversize ones. Of course, the pump is then timed and adjusted by qualified mechanics. He is taking out a wopping 280 hp!! And this is with the original turbo. It is the next item to be swapped out, for a bigger one, but this is because the origintal turbo takes a beating, when you charge it with about 2 bars.
It is possible to take out about 335 hp from the OM617A by this method, but the original automatic gearbox can`t handle more than about 280. The manual gearbox can take even less.

Check out these videos. He runs 39 inch tires, and axelerates from 40 to 90 km/h in about 7-8 sekonds. And in the sekond video, you can see that he does not have a problem with turbo lag:bike_rider:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X6NlIP-29E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDpN2NHl3qo

If i can raise the cash, this is to be done to my G as well.

I think the only difference between our views is whether or not a bigger turbo is necessary. Your friend changed his IP to produce more fuel. That's the issue as far as HP is concerned, and as you mention, it requires $$.

 

[G-force]

Then it was only my unsufficient english, that was the problem:elkgrin: Did not understand what IP was.
Of course a bigger turbo is better in several ways. There we do agree. It should be a much smother axeleration, and a smother pull. And at the same time, it will last longer.

Prize estimate from some guys in Finland, is about 1200.- US dollars. This is then for rebuild and tuning of the diesel pump. Not to bad, considering what you get, power wise.

Sorry about the miss understanding.

What does IP really stand for??

 

[39Ronin]

IP= Injection Pump

 

[39Ronin]

This is done by replacing the pistons in the diesel pump, with some slightly oversize ones. Of course, the pump is then timed and adjusted by qualified mechanics.

I assume this is at the expense of fuel economy? I like the idea of increasing the HP, but I will run it stock for few months to see I what I think and also to work out any bugs in the install.

 

[G-force]

Well, it`s not that bad. As i understand, it more or less the same fuel consumption as the stock version. This is when you drive as normal, commuting and highways. But then you have all that power to your disposial, when you need it. And of course then the consumption rises:coffeedrink:

Thanks for the "injection pump" Should have seen that one:victory:

 

[kerry]

Prize estimate from some guys in Finland, is about 1200.- US dollars. This is then for rebuild and tuning of the diesel pump. Not to bad, considering what you get, power wise.

That's less expensive than I imagined.

 

[muskyman]

I have owned a number of 300D MB over the years and I have also done alot of work on them and its a great high RPM diesel motor.

Going way off the beaten path with a VNT turbo or a finnish injector pump will make the motor more work to monitor then it will be worth in a 4x4.

What you can do to get a bit more power and also make it run 25% smoother and much quieter is a simple upgrade of the injector nozzles. the stock nozzles are really absolute crap compared to the new style fratelli bosio injectors. It takes all of about a hour to replace the 5 injectors and the motor will run better stronger with less smoke and better mileage.

here is a video from the great guys at dieselgeek.com...listen for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dseUEVVGsAw

I buy the injectors either from Paul at kerma TDI http://www.kermatdi.com/servlet/StoreFront or from dieselgeek.com.

When ever you replace the injector nozzles or just remove the injector body you also have to replace the injector heat shield as well. This is a small disc that drops into the injector bore prior to replacing injector body. failure to replace this will cause the new injector nozzles to fail very quickly.

I have been putting these injectors in MB's now for a number of years and they really are just far superior and really make people love their MB 5 cylinders all over again. The other huge benifit is these engines that are running on high ratio mixes of biodiesel will run much better in cold weather. I make a point of adding a two direction heat exchanger in all these cars for winter use these days as around here you are getting biodiesel blends all the time. the heat exchanger uses engine coolent to preheat the fuel before it goes into the injector pump and once again post heats the extra fuel from the injector pump before it returns it to the fuel tank. By doing this once the car is running even in the coldest parts of winter the car runs like its summer time. This is the twin fuel bio fuel coils I have been using now for a couple years and they work great!

http://www.helton.com.au/biofuel.htm

this looks to be a cool thread I will be watching how the project goes.

Thom

 

[kerry]

Well, it`s not that bad. As i understand, it more or less the same fuel consumption as the stock version. This is when you drive as normal, commuting and highways. But then you have all that power to your disposial, when you need it. And of course then the consumption rises:coffeedrink:

Thanks for the "injection pump" Should have seen that one:victory:

I cross posted your original comment over on the Diesel Performance forum at MercedesShop. There were skeptics. You can read the comments here:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=262701

 

[muskyman]

280 hp on a stock turbo....no chance

it dosent matter what injector pump you are running, the amount of fuel needed to make 280 HP with a stock turbo will just blow smoke and the EGT will skyrocket and the motor would be toast.

 

[muskyman]

I assume this is at the expense of fuel economy? I like the idea of increasing the HP, but I will run it stock for few months to see I what I think and also to work out any bugs in the install.

I wanted to touch on this.

fuel economy is not always hurt by increasing the power output of a diesel.

as a example I daily drive a 2001 VW Beetle tdi, I am running a mild aftermarket tune in it with some fretteli bosio PP205 injectors and it makes about 40 more HP and about 50ft lbs more torque then stock.

If you drive it like mother theresa it will get almost 10 more miles per gallon then it did stock. The motor makes more torque over the whole power curve and that translates to being able to accelerate the load easier. because diesel engines use almost no fuel when coasting off power movement equals the same fuel use as stock. In simple terms the motor is more efficient moving the same load then it was from the factory. This is very common for diesels when they are set up correctly and sized correctly for the load they carry.

 

[Zedd]

Good swap. There's a diesel performance tuning thread focused mostly on the 617 engine over here:

Here is a far better (and active) source: http://mercedesforum.com/forum/diesel-performance-49/

Going way off the beaten path with a VNT turbo

VNTs aren't very far off the path. I've had one for 4 years and about half a dozen others since then have as well (that I know of).

It takes all of about a hour to replace the 5 injectors and the motor will run better stronger with less smoke and better mileage.

Thats usually because the injectors have never been out of the engine for cleaning. They are a 100k mile maintenance item.

 

[kerry]

Here is a far better (and active) source: http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/

Yes. A lot of the posters frequent both forums, except for Lance (ForcedInduction) who manages to get himself banned on a regular basis from Mercedesshop.

 

[Zedd]

except for Lance (ForcedInduction) who manages to get himself banned on a regular basis from Mercedesshop.

Thats due to an incompetent and insecure moderator.

 

[muskyman]

Thats due to an incompetent and insecure moderator.

yes very true...the fights over there over things as simple as a image of a injection pump are epic.

Lance is one of the more consistant quality posters.