Tyre pressures on trucks

Amesz00

Adventurer
Just thought that id post up a bit of a note on this, seeing as I was reminded of its' importance during our recent trip through the WA deserts and north Kimberleys.

Whilst on the Gibb River Road heading up towards Mitchell Plateau, we stopped to talk to the owner/driver of a MAN tour coach, broken down with a snapped front axle. At the time we agreed with him, that there must be something wrong with the axle cast (these axles are ridiculously strong, 6.5T rated), but having since been on the rough road up the plateau (where he came from), and having talked with the driver again, we have a substantailly different view.
The tyres he runs are 385/65R22.5, same as the old 15R22.5 truck super singles, which are incredibly hard tyres, with not much sidewall. apon encountering the rough track to the plateau, we dropped our pressures to 40psi, which made a massive difference in ride (both dad's MAN and my canter run offroad michelins with large, baggy sidewalls), and also the constant pounding to the trucks. as the road got worse, we lowered them further, to around 30psi, this made the road quite bearable and actually quite fun.

Anyways, we saw the driver again on the way south (he had the axle welded up in Broome, but only 130 highway km later it broke again). We told him of our experiences on the Mitchell Plateau, and our tyre pressures. At this he was most surprised (that we went down to 30 psi), indicating to us that he hadnt let his tyres out, probly at all. Through dads fairly extensive experience in the offroad truck scene, we are quite convinced that his tyre selection, combined with failure to drop pressures are what caused all his troubles.

Which brings up a point of debate- tyre selection. had he been running XZL's on 20" rims, he may well have gotten away with not changing pressures, as the tyres naturally have alot of give. But the with the rock-hard semi-trailer super singles on 22.5s, which IMHO is very much like running 19.5" rims on a fuso or NPS, there is no room for error, as every bump is transferred directly through to the axle.

Sorry for being so long-winded, but i felt i had to tell the whole story.
Andrew
 

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Hey, Andrew . Sounds like a great trip, heh? Where's the pics in the 'FG's in Action"? . C'mon maaate. Haha.

there is no room for error, as every bump is transferred directly through to the axle.

Don't forget the suspension's role in all this.
 

Amesz00

Adventurer
Where's the pics in the 'FG's in Action"?

Yeah i just downloaded all dads photos, so hopefully when im back in on monday i can put some up, mates on facebook are begging for em also.

Don't forget the suspension's role in all this.

this is true, better suspension definetly helps, but those MAN's have good suspension from factory, so it obviously wasnt enough to compensate for the hard tyres. correct me if im wrong, but i would think that even with softer suspension, the axle will take a fair bit of shock before it reaches the suspension.
 

engineer

Adventurer
Hi Andrew,
My take is,
If you hit a brick wall with a boxing glove on, it will hurt more than hitting a matress....
I have had some experience with tyre pressures, like 70 psi@ 14 ton is the lowest I go on 1300/20's unless i sacrifice speed on good sections. 50 psi@ 6 ton was the lowest I went on 900/16's or whatever they call them now, because they would dramatically fail below that.
Bear in mind that I was always on a timetable and always trying to beat tides, sunlight and outrun storms etc, etc.
Temperature is always a good gauge, if you can't keep your hand on the tyre, your too low pressure or to high speed. I found on Cape York on my November trips, that driving at 70klms/hr on decent gravel always help reduce tyre carnage, but also, you don't want to slow the road trains down, esspecially the fuel tankers ;)
 
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whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
this is true, better suspension definetly helps, but those MAN's have good suspension from factory, so it obviously wasnt enough to compensate for the hard tyres. correct me if im wrong, but i would think that even with softer suspension, the axle will take a fair bit of shock before it reaches the suspension.

Did you know where the axle broke on the MAN? Up near the diff centre or towards the outside? If it was at the diff center I don't think it would be from the wheel transferring shock. Interesting , eh? You're right Andrew, it is a debatable issue, isn't it?


I've heard of them having drive train issues before up on the Cape and in the Territory. You're sitting on air seats in a cab insulated from the chassis by airbags and then with the parabolic springs /air bag suspension. The tour operator's tell me that they believe the driver's tend to 'over-drive' the vehicles because they just can't feel the bad roads to the same extent as with say an FG. I've heard that complaint more than once. "Too comfortable" and "too fast" were the phrases used and a couple of others that I can't repeat.
 
Andrew, excellent post.
For general offroad use, the Unimog owners' manual online recommends for 395/85R20:
66% road pressure at 20-50 kph.
For soft muck and sand: 40% road pressure at no more than 20 kph
For emergency only to get unstuck: 33% under 10 kph.
I have found that 66% on rough dirt roads really softens the ride and is much easier on the chassis. Even though 66% means 36 psi in front and 64 psi in the rear.
By the way my U500 camper is at the Port of Long Beach and will arrive in Brisbane ~20 Sept.
I plan to be in the Gibb River area ~ July 2011 and Great Sandy Desert (Rudall River etc.) ~Aug 2011.
I'd like to meet you.
I'll be heading north towards Cape York and then west towards Normanton etc and back down to Brisbane in Oct-Nov 2010.
Charlie

PS Over 50 kph tire temps start to rise and deflation is a bad idea. fortunately with CTIS and a constant pressure readout it's easy to calculate tire temp in your head with a little formula

T = Tcold X ((P + 1 bar)/(Pcold + 1 bar))
where T is temp in absolute (C + 273) and Tcold is morning temp(C) + 273
P is measured warm pressure, Pcold is cold pressure

This formula takes into account rise in ambient air temp which is a component of daily tire temp rise
I can't get Michelin to let loose with the info re critical tire temperature, however
 
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Amesz00

Adventurer
John,
the axle broke on the LHS, just left of the differential bowl. this appears to be the smallest part of the axle, and there is a plug of some sort on the back side, where the break went straight through. hmm, i dont really see how it could have been from anything else, other than one too many extra-hard hits. driver in-experience seems to be another factor, dad seems to think the guy doesnt have much of a background in driving trucks offroad, like how to hit bumps properly, or picking and flowing a line through the rocks, in the smoothest way possible- these only come with time.

Thanks for that Charlie, the michelin tech book backs up your post, re pressure vs speed.
Good to hear that your visiting the great land of Oz, the Kimberley is truly magnificent, and rudall river NP has some very nice oasis' hidden away in a few spots. Definetly drop in for a yarn when your down perth way, you and dad can argue over who first had dark blue on thier truck. :D

Oh yeah, rather than pollute everything else, ill make a new thread with a stack of our holiday pics in it.
 

Amesz00

Adventurer
finally got around to sticking some photos up. think i can only do 3 per post but...
 

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Amesz00

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Amesz00

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Amesz00

Adventurer
stupid bloomin useless retarded attachments manager keeps buggering up on me. im about to throw the computer at the brick wall, so ill stop and try more later...:mad:
 

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engineer

Adventurer
Awesome pics Andrew, I thought it was like Dakar or something. Your truck looks great, and tell Hans his is just as impressive for me!!!
 

JRhetts

Adventurer
A little off "tyres" topic, but I hope you'll excuse.

Andrew, I have seen several trucks like yours having a canvas cover over the camper. Is that for protection [gravel, mud, etc.] or is that your actual outer shell?

John
 

Amesz00

Adventurer
A little off "tyres" topic, but I hope you'll excuse.

Andrew, I have seen several trucks like yours having a canvas cover over the camper. Is that for protection [gravel, mud, etc.] or is that your actual outer shell?

John

John,
the canvas is the outer shell, on mine it goes over a steel cage like what we do for coaches. mainly protection from wheather and dust, also from prying eyes of certain people that may think whatever i have in the tray will look better in thier vehicle...
 

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