Ultimate Vehicle Fire Extinguisher

TreeTopFlyer

Adventurer
Your B fire is quite like to become an AB fire quite quickly. I'd never carry just a BC extinguisher.

And that is where the gear whore in me comes into play, I can't have just one. You gotta kinda find tune to what you might encounter without going overboard of course. There is no one-size fits all. The ABC will cover it, but you have the corrosive factor. CO2 only covers you in BC, Foam...AB. Halon is kinda pricey and has sort of been replaced by the FE-36 agent(not FE-13 like I had said, FE-13 is the size) It only has a 2A:10B:C rating where the Foam 2liter has an 8A:70B rating(which is pretty impressive its near equivalent to a 10lb dry chem). Water FEs are big and bulky. I am gonna try and mess around with a 5lb bottle and make it a water FE to use Fireade in. We'll see how it goes. I carry too much stuff as it is so what's one more piece of gear.
 
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Ray Hyland

Expedition Leader
OK, as Deputy Chief of a Fire Department on the top of a really big hill on a medium-sized highway, we deal with vehicle fires more than any other type of call. In the summer we may get two vehicle fires in a week. Please let me know if any of the below info doesn't make sense.

If you have a small electrical fire in the dash, you usually notice the smoke when the fire is tiny, and you can usually knock it out with anything. So a small (2 pound) BC extinguisher in each door of your truck would be a fairly safe bet for in-cab fires. Anything bigger and people end up mounting it behind the seat, or behind the fridge, and can't get it fast enough when they really need it. You want the extinguisher in your hand and ready to go within about 3 seconds of shutting off the ignition and taking off your seat belt. And you want to know how to use it, so buy an extra one and use it on a practice fire (and get your spouse/partner to practice as well) so that you are not reading the directions when you really need to use it.

For a serious engine fire, bigger is better.
As an example, we have put 1500 gallons of foam into an engine compartment on a Dodge Diesel Pickup and that sucker was still burning. Granted, usually by the time we get there with our truck, the fire has really taken hold.
But I would say carry a 20-pound ABC at a minimum for it to give you a good chance of putting a fuel or oil based fire out if the engine or tranny is hot.
(FYI - We have more fires starting in the tranny than any other part of the vehicle).
Also adding a 20-pound class D would be good if you have space for it and can afford it.
Make sure they are regularly checked, and also check the mounting brackets every month to make sure they stay secure on the trail, but come off properly when you need them. They should cost you between $150 and $200 each for the ABC's and about $400ish for the D.

Don't worry about the corrosion factor. You can deal with it after the fire is out. But if you don't get it out in the first couple of minutes, you are buying a new truck anyway.

Note - I would never recommend the average person using a water-based extinguisher on a vehicle fire. Even though we regularly use water/foam, we have all our protective gear on, and attack the fire at a greater distance than you would be using an extinguisher.
We use a Halligan Bar or Kelly Tool to open the hood to allow us to attack from a safe distance. The way we do this is to hammer a line diagonally across the hood, and then we pry up one corner, giving us a deflection shield, and maintaining containment while still allowing foam access from 40 feet away. Of course, we destroy the hood of the vehicle in the process.
You would likely be kneeling next to the truck trying to spray up and in. You would be closer, and much more exposed.
What is the danger with water? Pretty much EVERY vehicle made today has a lot of magnesium-alloys in the build. And that is all over the vehicle. A classic training video we use shows a fire-fighter spraying water into the drivers' window on a car fire, and there was a magnesium-alloy in the steering-column on this particular make. The blast blew the doors off, and tossed him about 30 feet away into the ditch. Even with non-magnesium-alloy parts, the cold water hitting hot steel often makes things blow apart. I have been peppered with bits of steel from 40 feet away. That's why we wear the big funny-looking helmets. :ylsmoke:
I would be very cautious about attacking a modern-vehicle fire with a water-based extinguisher if I was dressed in street clothes. If that's all you have, and someone is in the car, you do what your conscious tells you that you need to do to get them out. But if the vehicle is un-occupied, just keep the other traffic away, and call the insurance company.

Regarding class D fires, you may carry one for 20 years and never need to use it. But if you know you have a magnesium-alloy steering column, and you have a fire in the cab, or if you have a wheel fire with magnesium/aluminum-alloy wheels, then having that Class D extinguisher on the outside of your truck will quickly go from a $400, 20-pound piece of bling, to the savior of your $50,000 truck. Even more common alloys can be an issue. Most people think aluminum is pretty safe, but burning aluminum can cause unpredictable outcomes. When mixed with water it can produce hydrogen, which will make your simple wheel fire pretty exciting.

Cheers

Ray
 
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Bergum

Adventurer
That is why you should have installed 2 nozzles for foam in the engine compartment with a foam extinguisher hardwired to it. Just pull the safetypin and run....
 
Great post Ray. So would you agree that a 2BC Halon in the door pocket, and a large dry-chem in the back would be an effective strategy? The Halon is a "clean" first attempt, and if that doesn't work, use the messy stuff.

As a last resort, what about ditching the truck in a body of water? Will an aluminum fire be exited by that?

From what I read, it seems like Class D fires are rare, and *usually* only occur after a Class A/B/C fire has lit off the Class D?
 

Fish

Adventurer
Chief,
By and large, all good advice. One question -- do you carry all that in your POV? I know I don't.

I can certainly relate to the dangers of alloys. Got blown on my *** once when I walked by a window just as a hose stream inside a house hit a magnesium wheelchair. But I'm thinking that by the time someone's vehicle gets to the point where alloys are burning, the vehicle is likely a full loss anyway.

My suggestion for a water extinguisher (with Class A or AFFF) isn't really for the vehicle fire. It's for the camp fire that gets a little out of control.

For the average joe, a small dry chem in the cab and a larger dry chem (ABC) in the back is more than sufficient for day to day use. If you have more money and space, upgrade to a Halotrol type or a bigger ABC. As you stated, the idea isn't to knock down a fully involved vehicle fire, it's to stop an incipient fire. Or to get someone out.

For me, a Class D would be about the last thing I'd carry. I don't mean that in a "it's stupid" way. Just that I have a ton of other things I'd spend money and space on first. Realistically, I'd probably carry a porta power as an extrication tool before I'd carry a Class D. Which are you more likely to use?

Since we're talking fires here, one thing no one has mentioned is the ability to kill electrical power quickly. A Class C fire quickly becomes a Class A fire if you kill the power. So kill switches or cutters can be quite helpful. (Cut the negative first) Also, maintenance is quite important. Small leaks can turn into big fires.

Other chief ;)
 

TreeTopFlyer

Adventurer
These are pretty slick mounts
139731-md.jpg
 

Ray Hyland

Expedition Leader
Fish, you have it pretty well dead on I'd say.

I don't carry a class D myself, the old Land Rover I drive doesn't have any fancy metals in it.

But we do carry them in the big truck, as we will respond to calls with commercial trucks on the highway, and who knows what some of them are hauling.

If someone wants to be as prepared as they can be, and has the money, then a Class D doesn't hurt. And the thread was about the Ultimate fire extinguisher (s), rather than the most practical or cost effective, so I thought I would toss that one in there.

But yeah, if I was spending my own money, and was worried about it, I'd probably just carry a couple of really big buckets of sand. As you know, it pretty much does the same thing, just not as easy to apply. :)

Cheers
 

Ray Hyland

Expedition Leader
I think before anyone gets the wrong Idea, I should clarify that that last comment was a small joke between firefighters. I don't actually recommend anyone trying to put out a burning magnesium fire on the highway with a bucket of sand...

Ray
 

craig333

Expedition Leader
Lets also not forget what we're trying to accomplish with a fire extinguisher. We want to get that fire quickly when its still small. I'm fairly certain by the time I have magnesium involved I've lost the battle. Time to worry about preventing a wildfire.

Another advantage to an old Jeep. I'm pretty sure theres not a smidgen of magnesium anywhere on my Jeep:)
 

Ray Hyland

Expedition Leader
Actually most of the metal fires we deal with on the highway are Aluminum.

Especially motorhomes and travel trailers, but also pickups with tray-backs that are set up to haul horse-trailers and trucks with 5th wheels. They often have Aluminum tray set ups.

Once that stuff starts to burn it gets really hot. And you would be surprised how quickly it happens. Hose bursts, you get ATF on the exhaust, next thing you know the tranny is burning, and the aluminum above it starts to burn in a matter of minutes.

The interesting thing here is that by the time the tranny gets that hot, often the radiant heat has the aluminum above it already at a very high temp.

The vehicle is toast by this point of course. But we try to put it out to minimise damage to the asphalt road surface.

Ray
 

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