Unimog Axles under my Suburban?

[Colorado Ron]

Call me crazy, but I got to thinking! Someone talk me out of this please!lol.

I was adding up the cost of upgrading brakes and installing ARB Lockers in my suburban since we are just about done with all the armor. I know that Unimog axles will be more money, but parts availability in other countries is good and the clearance would be downright amazing! The only problem I can see it the crazy low gears. I got an email into Gear Vendor. Id like to find a overdrive with TWO overdrive gears to help offset the axle gears. I dont want to run 44s. Heres a video to help you visualize!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXYA7sonIT8

 

[Robthebrit]

I assume you are looking at 404 axles, they are not terribly good for speed. Anything over 60mph and you'll have trouble keeping the hubs cool, the diffs to better because they have more oil. Its a nightmare to change the seals on a 404 and you only have drum brakes, disk conversions of 404 axles are really expensive. Diesel axles are really heavy and handle the speed a little better but not by much, 70-75 is tops if you can find some diesel fast axles. Lots of people break mog axles by doing this.

You will need to fix the gearing, I can post the ratios if you don't have them. A 404 engine redlines at around 6000 rpm and only gives 60mph, top gear is 1:1 at the tranny. You would have a little better speed because your domestic tranny would have an overdrive gear but you would still have to run really high rpms, you would probably max out at around 80mph which is too fast for the axles. Your idea of a double overdrive is a good one to lower the rpms but it would allow you to go even faster.

A burb should be strong enough to handle 404 axles but probably not strong enough for the bigger ones, a burb is only a 3/4 ton truck, every mog is significantly higher and parts proportionally bigger. 404 parts are not terribly common, only NOS ex military parts are available, yes you can get them if you have access to one of the known 404 parts suppliers. Mercedes has not made any 404 specifc parts for years while all diesel mog parts are available worldwide.

I would not replace the axles on a travel vehicle, there are too many custom parts to break and too many unknowns. Can the frame handle a thousand miles of washboard with many times the unsprung weight the truck was originally designed for?

Rob

 

[Colorado Ron]

Your right, but just for argument sake:

According to Exaxt 4WD from Canada, with a disk brake conversion the 404s cool enough to not have a speed limit due to heat:

http://www.exaxt.ca/axle.asp

 

[Robthebrit]

They make really nice conversions and are top quality. If they say they have fixed the heat problems I would believe them. The mog shop in texas also make a really nice disk conversion but they are typically aimed at making replacements for mogs, not other trucks, I'm sure if they would work on another truck.

Rob

 

[lowenbrau]

I would not replace the axles on a travel vehicle, there are too many custom parts to break and too many unknowns. Can the frame handle a thousand miles of washboard with many times the unsprung weight the truck was originally designed for?

Rob

So far so good. Rusty old BJ60 frames show no signs of weakness after thousands of inches. 406 axles

 

[haven]

Portal-Tek

Portal axles make sense to me. They allow you to have
lots of ground clearance while running a more reasonable
tire size and more sustainable drive line angles.

Contact these folks for a set of portal axles to your specifications:
http://portal-tek.com/

It won't be cheap, but you'll have a Suburban that will be
worthy of a spread in Overland Journal.

People might think a Suburban is too big for an overland vehicle,
but it's actually pretty similar in size to the Land Rover D130, a
favorite for expedition use.

Suburban
Wheelbase 130 in
Length 222 in
Height 77 in
Width 79 in
ground clearance 9 in
curb weight, 3/4 ton model 6,385 lb

Defender 130
wheelbase: 127 in
length: 202 in
width: 70 in
height: 80 in
curb weight: 4650 lb
clearance: 8.5 in

The Suburban's interior volume is a lot more
than a D130, meaning less stuff has to go onto
the roof. I think the Suburban will have diesel
power again in 2009.

Chip Haven

 

[Grim Reaper]

Dont click these unless you have a few hours.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306807

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=398873

The first is 404's under a 4Runner and this truck can dance. It can clear a 5 gallon bucket and then slide into a ragular garage. Has an incredible Air bag suspension.

The second one is a FJ80 on Volvo portals.

Suburbans came with D60 and 14bolts. I don't see you having an issue with the frame since you are startign with a 3/4 ton. The key will be the suspension being designed to handle it.

 

[Colorado Ron]

The problem Im seeing, is its a fine line between sweet, and too much custom for a Expedition rig.

My problem right now is that I would like ARBs front and rear. The front is IFS and from everyone I talk to, too weak for a locker. And its one of those items that if Im locking the front axle, thats when I need it the most!

So I was think of throwing leafs under the front and a 60. Then I thought about the clearance I would loose and how to get it back. 404s seemed simple enough, with parts available, but now its getting more complicated. Maybe too complicated for an expedition rig.:Astrologist:

 

[Robthebrit]

If you do use 404 axles remember to fix the locker levers. A common problem on a 404 is smacking them on a rock and loosing the lockers. Even when broken you can engage the locker with a bungy cord. Some folks replace the lever and mechanical linkage replacing it with an air solenoid. This is still an exernal solnoid so can be damaged, a diesel axle has no external components for the locker other than an air connection which on the top and safe from damage.

Rob

 

[charlieaarons]

IMHO way too custom for an expedition truck. It would only be appropriate for a custom offroader, maybe even towed down the highway.
The hard part about building an expedition vehicle is keeping the chassis as stock as possible. Kind of hard to find a suitable chassis with diesel engine, simple suspension, solid axles, highest possible GVW.
If only they imported the HZJ78 or 105....

Charlie

 

[ntsqd]

How different, if at all, is your front diff assembly from those stuck under the DuraMax's?
Seems like they would be a stronger assembly, and might possibly be swappable with a little fab work.

 

[Hltoppr]

I agree with Charlie....too "balanced on a pinhead" custom to really use as an expedition rig....

But cool....:chowtime:

-H-

 

[shortymav]

Thought about Volvo portal axles ala volvo C303 and C304 millitary vehicles.

not as strong or big as mogs but i think better gearing, a bloke has them on his 80series toyota landcruiser, search ih8mud or pirate4x4 and they can point you to the thread.

 

[Czechsix]

ehhhhhhhh...no, I'd pass if I were you. Just too much work for the return, especially in an expedition vehicle. I took my Suburban out on a nice trail ride at the last Calico meet with Unimogs - didn't go everyplace they went, but did do just fine. Just have to pick different lines. Plus - I get to drive out at 70 mph, listening to the radio, and my passengers and I can also talk.

You can do pretty well with lockers, larger tires and a moderate lift. Then put your money into other things.

 

[4Rescue]

What about Volvo's ala Tired Iron's FJ80??? I'm not too well versed on the who/what of portals of the various makes, but I sure like what I've seen/done with them (I was an Engine boss on a Wildland Fire crew that used Mogs).