Unimog vs. ....
- Thread starter CornDog
- Start date
4Rescue
Expedition Leader
I'm thinking an HJ75 Toupue with a "Tired-Iron Esque" Volvo Portal Jobby would be about the best most treliable Overland vehicle on the planet. Slap on some 38's and you're looking at un-matched Toyota reliability adn all the clearence adn off-road ability of a Mog.
That said, having been an Engine Boss on a Mog Wild land Fire crew, I can attest to the great deal of advantages a Mog has in the really bad stuff. I loved being able to get a hose truck into the nastiest of nasty and back, and the visibility is awsome to boot. Mogs truly are something else. I dunno if I'd want to drive one over say 2000 miles. When we deploy, we often have to drive 5-10 hours to get to the fires, and it starts to wear on us. Me being the Engine boss and consumate 4x4 afficianado I am can't resist driving, but it becomes a chore. These are big heavy trucks with not alot of power (and this from a Guy who's daily driver is a 22RE powered truck...), but boy do we get the looks/waves out on the road.
If I needed something big that I was going to build a mobile living quarters on, I would look at a Mog. For most everything I do, A Toyota of some sort is far and away a better choice for me. Ultimate relaibility and plenty of ability.
Cheers and No Worries
Dave
That said, having been an Engine Boss on a Mog Wild land Fire crew, I can attest to the great deal of advantages a Mog has in the really bad stuff. I loved being able to get a hose truck into the nastiest of nasty and back, and the visibility is awsome to boot. Mogs truly are something else. I dunno if I'd want to drive one over say 2000 miles. When we deploy, we often have to drive 5-10 hours to get to the fires, and it starts to wear on us. Me being the Engine boss and consumate 4x4 afficianado I am can't resist driving, but it becomes a chore. These are big heavy trucks with not alot of power (and this from a Guy who's daily driver is a 22RE powered truck...), but boy do we get the looks/waves out on the road.
If I needed something big that I was going to build a mobile living quarters on, I would look at a Mog. For most everything I do, A Toyota of some sort is far and away a better choice for me. Ultimate relaibility and plenty of ability.
Cheers and No Worries
Dave
charlieaarons
Explorer
You're comparing apples and oranges to compare a Troopy to a Mog. A Troopy is a "camp-beside" rig (or on top of with a roof tent); a Mog is a "camp-inside" rig with a camper which it is fully capable of carrying. And as far as Toyota reliability, you diminish that with a one-off drivetrain conversion that you can't get parts and service for. If I were to buy a Troopy for expedition travel I'd leave it stock.
As far as drivability of a Mog, I drive my North American U500 at 60 but it's capable of 70. It is relatively quiet, and comfortable; we listen to music on the CD player. I drove it from Lake Tahoe to Anchorage in 8 very comfortable days, camping every night.
A somewhat older SBU Mog can be made to go fast with the right size tires and a Claas overdrive, but it's noisier. You can always add noise insulation and fancy seats. Older Mogs yet: 416, 406, 404 - forget going fast.
Charlie
As far as drivability of a Mog, I drive my North American U500 at 60 but it's capable of 70. It is relatively quiet, and comfortable; we listen to music on the CD player. I drove it from Lake Tahoe to Anchorage in 8 very comfortable days, camping every night.
A somewhat older SBU Mog can be made to go fast with the right size tires and a Claas overdrive, but it's noisier. You can always add noise insulation and fancy seats. Older Mogs yet: 416, 406, 404 - forget going fast.
Charlie
Robthebrit
Explorer
charlieaarons said:
My 416 camper does 70, it won't do it up big hills. How is the U500 on big hills? Can you still do 60-70 fully loaded?
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charlieaarons
Explorer
Sorry Rob - I was wrong. Forget going fast in a 404??
Anyways, it depends how steep the hill. On an 9% grade I drop down to 6th, 35 mph. 7-8% 7th gear, 35-50 mph. 4.5% or less I can stay in 8th at 50-70 mph. But I normally drive at 60, not 70 for several reasons: it's a huge heavy truck, 70 still scares me; fuel economy; tire heat. In Alaska most steep hilly terrain is curvey and so absolute speed is limited. Drivng thru Nevada on I-80 from Reno to near Elko I dropped to 6th (35) a couple of times on long upgrades, mostly 7th (50) and 8th (60).
Going downhill I love the exhaust brake; it's quiet and will greatly prolong brake life.
Charlie
Anyways, it depends how steep the hill. On an 9% grade I drop down to 6th, 35 mph. 7-8% 7th gear, 35-50 mph. 4.5% or less I can stay in 8th at 50-70 mph. But I normally drive at 60, not 70 for several reasons: it's a huge heavy truck, 70 still scares me; fuel economy; tire heat. In Alaska most steep hilly terrain is curvey and so absolute speed is limited. Drivng thru Nevada on I-80 from Reno to near Elko I dropped to 6th (35) a couple of times on long upgrades, mostly 7th (50) and 8th (60).
Going downhill I love the exhaust brake; it's quiet and will greatly prolong brake life.
Charlie
4Rescue
Expedition Leader
Your mog sounds great...charlieaarons said:
All I was really aluding to is that anywhere on the globe, for the most part I think you'd be ahead to have a 70 series LC. WEveryone outside of N. America knows how to work on tha=em and even better it's very unlikely you'd need to have it workrd on.
You're spot on about the apples and orange thing, like I said, if I had the money and was looking to build a stand alone/houseish rig, I wouldn't look at much other than a mog. For me personaly though, an Ezi-Awn and some well engineered storage can go a long way to feeling like home to me.
Make no mistake fella's, I love Mogs, doesn't everyone?
Cheers
Dave
Robthebrit
Explorer
Charlie: yes the 404 (gas engine) is the one that doesn't like to go fast and has tranny overheating problems on the freeway. The older diesel mogs are typically slow by modern standards, 70mph is very rare as you need fast axles and hubs. What do you mean a quiet exhaust brake? My sounds like they should sound! I stay at around 50-60mph for the same reasons, I keep up with the big trucks. I have a tire which has a flat spot and I get a bad wobble at about 61 through 63 mph. I need all new tires so I'm not worried about it.
Rescue: Mogs are widely available in pretty much every country other than the US. Mercedes global parts distribution is second to none, Toyota doesn't even come close. MBUK will overnight parts all over the planet and you can even send them back if they are wrong or if you don't need them. Until I moved to the US I thought of Mercedes as a truck and bus company that also made cars, in the UK you see more Mercedes trucks than cars. Its only the US where Mercedes doesn't want anything to do with the big stuff.
The OM352 Industrial engine used in the older diesel mogs is probably the most servicable engine on the planet. It is used worldwide (including the US) in generators, compressors, snow blowers, canes, buses, boats, trucks and pretty much everything else than needs power. The U500 uses a modern derivative of this engne and is generally equally servicable but it does have electronics.
Rob
Rescue: Mogs are widely available in pretty much every country other than the US. Mercedes global parts distribution is second to none, Toyota doesn't even come close. MBUK will overnight parts all over the planet and you can even send them back if they are wrong or if you don't need them. Until I moved to the US I thought of Mercedes as a truck and bus company that also made cars, in the UK you see more Mercedes trucks than cars. Its only the US where Mercedes doesn't want anything to do with the big stuff.
The OM352 Industrial engine used in the older diesel mogs is probably the most servicable engine on the planet. It is used worldwide (including the US) in generators, compressors, snow blowers, canes, buses, boats, trucks and pretty much everything else than needs power. The U500 uses a modern derivative of this engne and is generally equally servicable but it does have electronics.
Rob
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charlieaarons
Explorer
My exhaust brake has two stages: a flapper in the exhaust and and a Jake brake type setup in the head opening a small exhaust valve during the compression stroke. But unlike a Jake it's quiet.
Charlie
Charlie
Robthebrit
Explorer
Mine is just the flapper in the exhaust, makes a hell of a noise and when I let it go all the crap that has been building up in the exhaust comes out - all at once.
Rob
Rob
Gold Boy
Adventurer
one of the big advantages with the mog and the pinz are the portal axles. but for approximately 15g i can have a custom portals installed on my land cruiser. my piont being is that it is possible to have the advantages of portal axles with out the disadvantages of a uncommon pinz or mog.
:drool:
:drool:
Robthebrit
Explorer
You can fix a mog in most countries easier then you can fix a Toyota, every country on the planet has big trucks and diesel mechanics and the OM352 is probably the most serivable engine ever made. Toyota doesn't even come close to MB for worldwide truck parts availability.
I don't understand why you would pay 15k to make your vehicle much less reliable, do you really need portal axles when on expedition? The mogs capablity does not just come from its portals, its a complete system and I doubt your land crusiser would be as capable as a mog even with the portals.
Putting mog portals on other trucks is the easiest way to break expensive parts. The mog parts are not made for high power or high speed this is especially true for 404 parts. Unfortuntely 404 parts are typically used because diesel mog axles are too expensive and way too heavy. A pair of 416 or 1300 axles which are about the smallest diesel axles you can easily find and they weigh significantly more than a land cruisers load capacity, just because they are under your truck does not mean they don't add to your gross weight. Putting them on such a vehicle along with 300 pound wheels will literally tear your frame apart after a few days on washboard. Running over washboard with something like a ton and half of unsprung weight requires some careful design.
A mog is a complete system, has lots of load capacity, handles its weight very well and is very reliable. The flexible frame, 3 point mounts for everything (including the engine), portals, lockers, coil springs, torque tubes, gearing all play a huge role.
Rob
I don't understand why you would pay 15k to make your vehicle much less reliable, do you really need portal axles when on expedition? The mogs capablity does not just come from its portals, its a complete system and I doubt your land crusiser would be as capable as a mog even with the portals.
Putting mog portals on other trucks is the easiest way to break expensive parts. The mog parts are not made for high power or high speed this is especially true for 404 parts. Unfortuntely 404 parts are typically used because diesel mog axles are too expensive and way too heavy. A pair of 416 or 1300 axles which are about the smallest diesel axles you can easily find and they weigh significantly more than a land cruisers load capacity, just because they are under your truck does not mean they don't add to your gross weight. Putting them on such a vehicle along with 300 pound wheels will literally tear your frame apart after a few days on washboard. Running over washboard with something like a ton and half of unsprung weight requires some careful design.
A mog is a complete system, has lots of load capacity, handles its weight very well and is very reliable. The flexible frame, 3 point mounts for everything (including the engine), portals, lockers, coil springs, torque tubes, gearing all play a huge role.
Rob
Gold Boy
Adventurer
Toyota doesn't even come close to MB for worldwide truck parts availability.
are you sure?
if yes.... toyota still has great global coverage.
I don't understand why you would pay 15k to make your vehicle much less reliable, do you really need portal axles when on expedition? The mogs capablity does not just come from its portals, its a complete system and I doubt your land crusiser would be as capable as a mog even with the portals.
i'm just saying they are an option
Putting mog portals on other trucks is the easiest way to break expensive parts.
was not thinking of mog portal axles, but yes they would be a poor combo. i was thinking more along the lines portal-tek portal axles, don't see how you would break expensive parts with a correct install.
A mog is a complete system, has lots of load capacity, handles its weight very well and is very reliable. The flexible frame, 3 point mounts for everything (including the engine), portals, lockers, coil springs, torque tubes, gearing all play a huge role.
true, mogs are awesome, who could debate against that?
all in all i think a diesel tlc with portal axles, lockers, would make an awesome expedition vehicle.
imho :cow:
are you sure?
if yes.... toyota still has great global coverage.
I don't understand why you would pay 15k to make your vehicle much less reliable, do you really need portal axles when on expedition? The mogs capablity does not just come from its portals, its a complete system and I doubt your land crusiser would be as capable as a mog even with the portals.
i'm just saying they are an option
Putting mog portals on other trucks is the easiest way to break expensive parts.
was not thinking of mog portal axles, but yes they would be a poor combo. i was thinking more along the lines portal-tek portal axles, don't see how you would break expensive parts with a correct install.
A mog is a complete system, has lots of load capacity, handles its weight very well and is very reliable. The flexible frame, 3 point mounts for everything (including the engine), portals, lockers, coil springs, torque tubes, gearing all play a huge role.
true, mogs are awesome, who could debate against that?
all in all i think a diesel tlc with portal axles, lockers, would make an awesome expedition vehicle.
imho :cow:
charlieaarons
Explorer
If you define an expedition vehicle as something to go camping over the weekend on some bad roads or offroad, then maybe you're right.
I define an expedition vehicle as something to travel thousands of miles from home, over international borders, potentially on bad roads but not necessarily the greatest offroad challenges, since you are so far from home and help.
You want maximum reliability. If something breaks you want the nearest dealer (hopefully in the same country!) to have it or be able to quickly order it, in this age of Fedex/DHL and computers.
A vehicle with completely custom suspension, axles and maybe even a modified drivetrain does not satisfy these criteria.
One of the best small vehicles that is capable stock is the diesel Landcruiser, preferably the 78 series or 105 series. It comes with a great drivetrain, strong axles with lockers, decent but not great suspension etc.
Large vehicle: Unimog.
My opinion - if you really want to travel in a vehicle buy one that is capable with the least modifications. Believe me, I've been there, done that.
Charlie
I define an expedition vehicle as something to travel thousands of miles from home, over international borders, potentially on bad roads but not necessarily the greatest offroad challenges, since you are so far from home and help.
You want maximum reliability. If something breaks you want the nearest dealer (hopefully in the same country!) to have it or be able to quickly order it, in this age of Fedex/DHL and computers.
A vehicle with completely custom suspension, axles and maybe even a modified drivetrain does not satisfy these criteria.
One of the best small vehicles that is capable stock is the diesel Landcruiser, preferably the 78 series or 105 series. It comes with a great drivetrain, strong axles with lockers, decent but not great suspension etc.
Large vehicle: Unimog.
My opinion - if you really want to travel in a vehicle buy one that is capable with the least modifications. Believe me, I've been there, done that.
Charlie