Unimog vs. ....

[Sitec]

Here's my take on it... (and I'm not saying I'm right or wrong), but it's the reason we went with our choice...

The smaller affordable Unimogs have a short wheelbase. Add to that wasted space with a bonnet and you have little room to fit a box. If you do, you then have to watch weight and are still on slow portal axles, and if you are not careful, end up with a short, tall and possibly ungainly top heavy build... You then step up to the larger Mogs... Longer wheelbase, bigger engines and 10 stud rims. These were my second choice of build platform and there are quite a few ex Australian Army units here coming up for sale for sensible money... You still have the issue of wasted space as they are not 'cab over'. I've heard a mix of reports/complaints/issues with portal axles, oil temps, parts and overloading etc, which is why I pitted it as second option to our chosen option. Lastly... Where do you really plan to take your 8-12 tonne $100000 home on wheels... This needs serious consideration... On ariving at that bog hole, river crossing, 45 deg down hill slope, do you really need to drive there...? Mogs are truly awesome off road in the right hands. Just watching where Ian (member on here) has been in Australia with his Mog Overlander is impressive to say the least. However, I (never say never) can't see us needing to truly utilize the off-road capabilities of a Unimog, which is why I went this way......

We have purchased a Mercedes 1222a cab over truck.. (one of only a few Merc options I had available to me here in Oz... I'd have liked the slightly larger Mercedes 1831 AK). Ours is a 12 tonne 220hp unit. It has huge axles, (Hub Reduction) and the rear is capable of handling 500hp alone. Our chassis rails allow for a 6m living body that's approx 2.5m wide. It has a lazy 10.5lt V6 engine (available from 220hp to 340hp), selectable 4x4, high range, low range and front and rear diff lock. The cab tips allowing full access to the engine at all times. Being a 12 tonner, it's over engineered and should never suffer from axle failure, chassis overloading etc etc. I've used Mercedes NG, MK and SK trucks as tour coaches in Africa. The only faults I had in two years out there was a lift pimp on a 2421 V6, and a rear main leaf fail on a 1617. Both trucks were in daily use and we loved them. Quote the chassis number almost anywhere in the world and parts appear! They run 10.00 R20 or 11R22.5 tyres which are also available pretty well anywhere in the world (and at a sensible cost). I'm of the opinion a heavier simpler truck is the way to go. I totally get the love of Mogs, and think theyre brilliant, just not quite the right unit for me. Hopefully our truck will prove it's worth in the future. It's already paid for itself in the 4-5 years of ownership.

 

[grizzlyj]

I don't think looking at just two of anything produced in reasonable quantities is representative? There are an awful lot of Mogs used by a lot of different people doing many things. 60,000 miles is a lot if it's been abused and unserviced for all that?
A 7500kg Mog weighs about 5500kg bare chassis so most of that is not much higher than the tyres, some of your extra payload will be spare tyres and fuel, again low down. So I don't see how you could build one with the remaining payload so high as to actually be top heavy? Tall tyre side walls, long travel springs and a flexy chassis so they look wobbly because they're designed to wobble. Separate cab from load deck makes it look worse. Putting shocks on to limit that wobble as some do is a bit daft.
Portal issues are well publicised but again I don't think it happens to that many considering how many Mogs there are out there. As far as I've seen they are only ever on the six stud hubs which IIRC have about 500ml of oil each. 8 and 10 stud hubs have IIRC more than twice that so any migration of a bit is less of an issue. Either way, probably sold on fear rather than experience, a bypass to stop the oil migrating too far is available.
The fact they have a bonnet is for sure a down side if you want every spare inch of chassis length for a camper. Where will you travel? If you aim to normally stay warm and dry outside then internal living space is less of an issue than if you are heading where it's cold, windy and wet. That free chassis length might be decided by whether you want a permanent bed or a convertible dinette you want to make up every day.
If you don't need it why take it? If you can use a camper that fits on a 7500kg Mog with payload to spare then you don't need more. More weight probably means more bhp to get up that mountain pass at more than walking pace, more fuel, bigger tanks, more weight, more bhp, bigger tanks, more weight.....
Personally I like the fact the portals, gearing, tyre size allowable (bigger than other trucks of the same weight while still staying within what the manufacturer recommends) means you can go where other trucks can't and with less stress. The same size camper is less likely to get stuck. That falls down if you overload, or fill the chassis sides with storage and fuel tanks eating into the ground clearance. Slightly silly example but search the Kiravan, too much too low down but many other expensive German campers do the same.
I bought a used home build camper on an ex-army U1300l with 14.50 tyres, had a small turbo put on and it was super slow until we discovered it was way over built and weight even though it had been previously used for a multi year trip around North America, one broken starter motor in that time I think. Then put that camper onto an ex water company U1700 which was then inter cooled and 395 85 tyres which was 100% awesome, although an overdrive would have been nice. Lived in for three years continuous between both. Now sold for something bigger because there are three of us. Two adults and a baby seat don't really fit in a Mog cab for long trips. I'd have another Mog in a heart beat for just two of us. Maybe a narrow axle shortish wheelbase to fit more places, Alaskan camper on the back, or a U2150L38 on fat XM47 tyres
An abused truck is an abused truck. Mogs are very widely used by many private individuals to go everywhere. If they broke every 60.000miles they wouldn't have been in production for seventy years and used by armies, governments, multi national corporations etc etc worldwide.
A bonnet also means you can sound proof the cab maybe more easily than if the engine is under you (?), and you don't have to tilt the cab for maintenance. I'd also say a 3250 wheelbase Mog doesn't drive like a truck. The clutch is heavy, it is slow, there's a lot of gears, the brakes are ace, the steering is lovely, the view out is mega and the turning circle is really good so if you're coming from smaller vehicles or just don't want to drive something too cumbersome I was continually amazed. Slow but nimble if that makes sense. At 200hp + 9500kg, 9 miles per imperial gallon.

 

[Iain_U1250]

A llI can add is that we love our truck, it took 6 years to do a full rebuild, but now we have over 50,000km, and we are just waiting for more time to get back out in it again. Now we do day trips and wekends away, but will use if your our "round the world" trip as soon as we can. Ours is a little U1250, but we have upgraded everything , and with around 200hp, fast axles and overdrive, we can cruise at 100kph, have a/c central locking and electric windows. We run at 8000kg most of the time, and so far have had only a few problems, all fixable on the road except for the time it fell off the jack and damaged a portal bearing. Our truck had about 90,000km on it and after 30+years of work as a rail road, was pretty worn out.

 

[Lovetheworld]

We traveled with someone with a unimog as above (at least with that nose). It was the military version. This means it had air pressure on EVERYTHING. Even on the headlights! So you can drive through water for hours on end.
Also pressurized axles and gearbox. We were around 5000 meter / 16000 feet altitude, and his air pressure was blowing out the gearbox oil. Luckily he had stuff with him so he could keep adding what was lost.

The Unimog above looks quite nice if you did all those upgrades and have a/c etc.

But there are only very little people who really use the capabilities of the Unimog. And I don't mean every day of course, but just ever in their entire ownership.
So you don't use the upsides of the Unimog, but you do get the downsides, such as the higher initial price, the reduced comfort (especially with no AC and 80kph) and limitations in design.
For example with a family, a double cab is very hard to find. And some trucks would allow you to put a bigger box on.

Don't get me wrong though, it is a great truck. If I would go to a place that has no tracks at all, I would prefer a Unimog to anything else. I would also love to have it for offroad events etc.
But in reality, even when offroading and travelling, you are sticking to a track. And even when we had occasions where we literally lost the tracks (Mongolia) we could still do it with our 4x4 van.
And a lot of places are not like Mongolia, meaning that you stick to the track not to destroy all the nature around it.

Being slow does not have to be important. Nice if you travel for years on end.
However, we did two big trips now, which were limited in time. (one year, and the other a bit more than half a year)
Even if we had time enough, we would still try and visit other places. Most people will spend a lot of time driving in the end, of which most is on roads or easy tracks.

We met a nice German couple in quite a big Unimog, on the crappy roads of Eastern Kazakhstan. We had a nice chat, and both started driving again.
Our van is really quite slow, it only has 75 horsepower and no turbo, can you imagine.
But once we started driving I realised after one minute we already covered twice the distance and they were disappearing in the mirror.
This was obviously not a race, but it tells you a lot about average driving speeds / daily mileage, and driving comfort.

 

[dwh]

Darrin Fink added a valve with a switch to his Mog so he could shut off the axle pressurization. Seems like a good idea.

 

[grizzlyj]

Darrin Fink added a valve with a switch to his Mog so he could shut off the axle pressurization. Seems like a good idea.

Mine were disconnected too.

To get from fourth to fifth in an older square cab Mog there's an air ram on the gear box for that shift only, you have to wait for it to do it's thing. On the flat we usually pulled off in fourth, uphill on road third. I would think on a Mog owned by someone else you might be tempted to pull off in fifth to save waiting for that air ram just after you've pulled away into traffic. Certainly fifth gear can be an issue on a used manual Mog, so maybe the clutch gets abused by people doing that?

Some of the most memorable bits of our trips were where the Mog allowed us to be there, or fluids capacity allowed time while way out there. Or allowed a camper that big where the track had been made by a lifted Landcruiser type of thing maybe. Tyres, gearing, diff locks, flex. One track we went up we were followed by a group of modified Landcruisers, we went up with zero wheelspin or stress and had a cup of tea, they gave up after about three hours of trying

On tarmac we could still do 350 miles a day easily enough even limited to 56mph (or less) and cruising at a bit below that. We travelled with a Landy for about a week at one point. They pulled away at every junction on the road so gained ten seconds or so which would probably end up being annoying if you were actually trying to stay together all day. Off road we could cruise sometimes twice as fast on the fist sized rocks next to and not on the track which was in bad condition.

We also met someone with a tuned 4x4 MAN Kat 1 camper on 16.00R20s who spent all morning at about 5mph and max rpm trying to get up a track through (his) bumper deep snow. Other than to put a smile on his face I'm not sure why, but I don't think you could persuade him any sort of 4x4 van was "better"

Different is all.

 

[Lovetheworld]

@grizzlyj Well to each his own.

While I do understand the man in that MAN camper trying to go to the max, I also do not wish to be that man when he gets stuck
Any vehicle that is 3 ton or less is much easier to get free again.

Anyway, I respect the choice of buying a machine that can do so much and then use it like that. So good job I would say
But I don't like people taking all these capable monsters and never use their full capabilities. Then you just have the downsides.
I have also seen people taking a standard Landcruiser (which already allows you to do a lot) and only drive it through Asia on tarmac, never hitting that 4x4 button.

We were in Mongolia, and that is one of the few countries where it is somewhat okay to carve your own new track, and there is obviously the space to do so.
But even then you don't really need that or will not do it so often.
Yes we went through some sand dunes (without any track) and have also had occasions where we would just drive 10 miles into nothing, because I felt it should be possible to get to another track (which worked)
But those are exceptions, and I as well as other people don't like it so much to drive through untouched nature creating new tracks. Yes it is fun but I would rather not destroy too much
I love driving over sand dunes though. For that a Unimog would be great, or some smaller 4x4 with lots of power.
The guy I know with the Unimog also once got himself stuck in the desert of Libya (when it was visitable), and had to use satalite phone because he was running out of water and food, and could not free himself.
He was so far out into the desert that the first rescue team with a couple of new Landcruisers could not even reach him. Only the second attempt worked out.

So, like the saying goes: A 4x4 doesn't mean you don't get stuck, it just means you get stuck further away from home.
This also means having a more capable 4x4 only gets you stuck even further away from home And harder to get it free again.

Typically, I try to avoid risk when travelling. We pretty much never get stuck when offroading far away from home.
If I see a deeply carved out track for which my ground clearance may not be enough, I can see how easy it is to work around that.
That could also lead to the conclusion that it is too risky, simply turn around and find another way.

Darrin Fink added a valve with a switch to his Mog so he could shut off the axle pressurization. Seems like a good idea.

In that military version there was actually a complete panel or box, where you could plug-in and plug-out air pressure lines really easily and quickly. With 20 connections or something.
That is probably useful, so you can disconnect any faulty lines that would make you lose air pressure quickly.
For example, you would be able to disconnect the axles or the headlights.
But I think the gearbox needs to be pressurized to help with smooth shifting.

 

[Lovetheworld]

Yes perhaps his one was also having overpressure like yours.
He said it only happened at high altitude, but I can't really see how that makes it leak fluid. Yes air pressure outside is lower, so a bit lower resistance, but resistance should come from oil seals anyway, and the compressor may even have a harder time to compress the air resulting in lower system pressure.
Anyway, I still like the trucks, but these kind of things together with the "gearbox on each wheel" changed my image of the Unimog a little bit. I don't regard it as simple as a standard diesel 4x4 truck anymore. Of course I still see it as a very reliable machine, but not the lowest tech out there.

Different subject: How about getting parts etc when roaming around the world? Same goes for the "French unimog", a Renault TRW2000, and many other trucks.
The Unimog is not widely available in many countries, so getting parts can get difficult I assume.
Of course you can always fly in something. Or perhaps have some dealership or workplace in the capital of a country?
But compared to a regular Mercedes or Toyota diesel truck or van, it is not so common I think.

 

[Iain_U1250]

One thing we love most about our truck is the smooth ride, the long travel soft coil springs means we wallow a bit, but makes it pretty smooth on dirt roads, and we don't have air seats. I've never driven a truck with a smoother ride, and occasionaly its get very smooth for a few seconds

 

[Bobmog]

We bought an ex-Belgium dry chemical fire truck 404.0 in 1995 for off-roading. For offroad ability and nonluxury camping you can't beat a 404.0 Unimog. Although they are pretty rare if you look hard you can find them and usually for less than $20,000. They are basically the same dimensions as the 416 but significantly lighter and more nimble off road. They can cruise about 60 mph all day with no problem. We took our 404.0 crewcab and a 416 with fast axles from San Diego to the tip of Baja and back and the next year took both trucks through Alaska, Yukon and B.C., the 416 had its work cut out trying to keep up with the 404.0. We had no heating issues either in the tranny or the portals. We did have the alternator go out on the 404 which caused some issues that the diesel 416 would not have had. The 404.0 is also much quieter in the cab for long trips. The 404.0 is also nimbler, we have taken most of the trails in the San Juans a number of times including Poughkeepsie Gulch and down Black Bear Pass the 404 did great. We also have a Jeep Rubicon and the 404.0 can fit and maneuver on any trail we have had the Jeep on. The Unimog is 20' longer that the JKU and 23" shorter than the new Jeep Gladiator. If you want to put a heavy camper on the truck then I would go 416 but if you can get by with a payload of 1.5 tons or less the 404.0 is awesome.

 

[C p weinberger]

Bobmog
Any idea What kind of fuel mileage 404 vrs 416?

 

[charlieaarons]

When I purchased my my U500 chassis it was the only decent 4x4 medium-heavy 4x4 chassis sold in the USA that had any hope of parts/service in most countries. It is true that it is currently a bit of an "orphan" in the US but that does not mean I can't get parts; I get them quickly from Merex in Gaggenau using the EPC to get part #s. The US market for these sort of chassis is pretty hopeless currently unless you like enormous hoods (bonnets), automatic transmissions and are willing to perform 4x4 conversions, or buy a >25yo chassis from overseas. And yes going offroad a little bit is necessary to find camping spots invisible from the road and we had to do it in Mongolia to get from one dirt road to another. And CTIS, locking diffs and low gears has gotten me unstuck way more than once.
Like Joaquinsuave says, you don't go out of your way to find offroad challenges with a 9-12 ton expedition camper but it occaisonally FINDS YOU. And once every couple of years makes it worth having a capable vehicle.

 

[Bobmog]

C p I estimate about 15 mpg. The odometer is kph and it has bigger than stock tires so I don’t have an accurate calculation, but I figure about 15 mph.

 

[unirover]

@grizzlyj Well to each his own.

Typically, I try to avoid risk when travelling. We pretty much never get stuck when offroading far away from home.
If I see a deeply carved out track for which my ground clearance may not be enough, I can see how easy it is to work around that.
That could also lead to the conclusion that it is too risky, simply turn around and find another way.

That's the point of the Unimog. It's not that you have to use the max capability, but it is that relatively speaking, you can do much more than most vehicles without the risk of damage. I rarely take my Unimogs anywhere a JKU Rubicon could not go but for them it is risky and there is the risk of getting stuck or damaging the vehicle. For me it is easy peasy with little risk or drama. The extra ability means I can safely and reliably access areas that would be questionable in other vehicles. As a result I can get to places where there are fewer people and there is more to explore.

Also, while Unimogs are not common, they are Mercedes and as a result there is excellent parts back up. Comparing them to a Renault or Volvo Laplander or Pinzqauer is not really accurate since those vehicles have essentially been abandoned by their manufacturer. I can get virtually any Unimog part to any address that recieves mail in 72 hours although I cringe at what that might cost depending on the part. Fortunately, they are very reliable.

 

[Lovetheworld]

That's the point of the Unimog. It's not that you have to use the max capability, but it is that relatively speaking, you can do much more than most vehicles without the risk of damage. I rarely take my Unimogs anywhere a JKU Rubicon could not go but for them it is risky and there is the risk of getting stuck or damaging the vehicle. For me it is easy peasy with little risk or drama. The extra ability means I can safely and reliably access areas that would be questionable in other vehicles. As a result I can get to places where there are fewer people and there is more to explore.

Also, while Unimogs are not common, they are Mercedes and as a result there is excellent parts back up. Comparing them to a Renault or Volvo Laplander or Pinzqauer is not really accurate since those vehicles have essentially been abandoned by their manufacturer. I can get virtually any Unimog part to any address that recieves mail in 72 hours although I cringe at what that might cost depending on the part. Fortunately, they are very reliable.

Yes I get that idea. And I agree with that approach.
However for most people, this is a theoretical discussion and would never use it like that. They will buy it for that idea though. And that is a big thing, buying into an image.

From time to time, people come to us because of the trips we made. And what kind of car they should choose. Usually what kind of 4x4 etc. For our trips through Asia, I explain that you can drive the main route you want with a standard car.
"but what about the bad roads?" for that it is good to have some ground clearance. After discussing with a young couple that was saving money for a trip, they already noticed that travelling there was not so expensive but they had to save a lot for the car and the gear. I explained that a RAV4 would get to most places like they wanted to do, and (in that region) it can be fixed anywhere if it ever breaks (which is unlikely)

A 4x4 just lets you get to more places, and allows you to visit more areas which are otherwise not an option. Something like a Unimog is on top of the ranks and lets you go everywhere.
People may not like to hear the following but: the difference in places where you can get with a Unimog versus a 4x4 is pretty small for most overland routes.
We visited Mongolia for example, and we included quite some more remote parts in it, and we were still able to do all of this in a 4x4 van. It included all kinds of terrain.

So, if you are the kind of guy that goes camping in 3 feet of snow, or that likes to draw a straight line accross a map and then drive that, please choose a Unimog
For most people, including some of the already Unimog owners, they don't need it.

But the above attitude is also formed by seeing multiple people failing to make their trip or delaying it for multiple years (!) because of spending to much time and money on some kind of ultimate vehicle that they want to build or have. A complete waste.

Take a standard Landcruiser, throw a mattress in the back, and show me where you can't go in the world with that?