Unobtainum

[MikeIndiaKiloEcho]

I'm not going to address all the random stuff you are saying - the original post, page one, post #1 "Longing for what we can’t have. At least here in the USA...."

I followed that up by saying how is a domestic rig lacking "having that"? Nothing you've said in your multiple diatribes has changed my mind.

As @tacollie points out, these are tools, you input the data you need (capacity, range, size limitations, etc) out pops the truck you need. Cross reference that with parts availability, durability, relaibility, etc. and pick what works. My opinion is a domestic rig meets the needs MUCH better than a LC70 and ticks that box for the OP?

The op effectively said "longing for an LC 70"

Does the spec meet the needs? Sure, IS it what the man asked for? Not in any way shape or form.

If he asked for a pizza, would a Burger be perfect for his request?
It has meat, cheese, a bread like base, tomato, a tomato sauce kind of thing..... that will work! It checks the boxes, right?

Im editing to add this. You said "what ticks the boxes". Your first three points were Capacity, Range, and SIZE LIMITATIONS. An LC70 and a F350 do not share the same foot print. They do not share the same height. They do not have the same length. SO just on your simplest metric. The LC70 fits a completely different bill. Which could be exactly why the guy wishes he had one.

 

[MikeIndiaKiloEcho]

I spent some time in Aus - they loved Raptors when I was there, if you had money, it seemed like that was what you bought and not a LC70....

Yeah, ********, Id love a raptor.
If you're giving it to me Ill take two!

If ya had the money... sure!
Now lets be honest. An LC70 is a 4wd work truck. It is not a Raptor. Hell, a Raptor is a F150 with a DECREASED load capacity. No Raptor is a work truck.
I cant remember if it was you who posted the AEM Prospector Ram. Again not a regular work truck.

Is it fair to choose between a F-350 and a LC70? Maybe. As I have said before, There are pros and cons to each. Ive also heard a lot of people in Oz not happy with the new four cylinder as well. TO each his own on that.
Now to harken back to your Diesel Mechanic comment. What do you do with 1000 lb ft of torque? Pour fuel out the window as you drive. When I owned my F450 I think I used about all of a quarter of that because opening the throttle all the way was like draining an aircraft carrier (albeit at ************** warp speed but still). I used to drive a gas F550, I could WATCH the needle drop on that thing.

Even the thirstiest LC 70 doesnt burn fuel at that rate. Again. To each his own.

 

[nickw]

Yeah, ********, Id love a raptor.
If you're giving it to me Ill take two!

If ya had the money... sure!
Now lets be honest. An LC70 is a 4wd work truck. It is not a Raptor. Hell, a Raptor is a F150 with a DECREASED load capacity. No Raptor is a work truck.
I cant remember if it was you who posted the AEM Prospector Ram. Again not a regular work truck.

Is it fair to choose between a F-350 and a LC70? Maybe. As I have said before, There are pros and cons to each. Ive also heard a lot of people in Oz not happy with the new four cylinder as well. TO each his own on that.
Now to harken back to your Diesel Mechanic comment. What do you do with 1000 lb ft of torque? Pour fuel out the window as you drive. When I owned my F450 I think I used about all of a quarter of that because opening the throttle all the way was like draining an aircraft carrier (albeit at ************** warp speed but still). I used to drive a gas F550, I could WATCH the needle drop on that thing.

Even the thirstiest LC 70 doesnt burn fuel at that rate. Again. To each his own.

I didn't make the diesel mechanic comment amigo.

Fuel consumption is largely a factor of power requirements - hook 10,000 lbs to a LC70 it's going to use about the same amount of fuel as a domestic diesel pickup. Driving around unloaded, LC70 wins, it's lighter duty and weighs a lot less....physics prevails.

 

[nickw]

The op effectively said "longing for an LC 70"

Does the spec meet the needs? Sure, IS it what the man asked for? Not in any way shape or form.

If he asked for a pizza, would a Burger be perfect for his request?
It has meat, cheese, a bread like base, tomato, a tomato sauce kind of thing..... that will work! It checks the boxes, right?

Im editing to add this. You said "what ticks the boxes". Your first three points were Capacity, Range, and SIZE LIMITATIONS. An LC70 and a F350 do not share the same foot print. They do not share the same height. They do not have the same length. SO just on your simplest metric. The LC70 fits a completely different bill. Which could be exactly why the guy wishes he had one.:

If you wanna use a food analogy, he asked for healthy food and ordered a dozen donuts, is it wrong to recommend a chicken salad if it better meets his requirements?

These people travel all over the world in a full size Ford but I guess they should of talked to you first?

Turtle Expedition » Vehicles

www.turtleexpedition.com

Not sure why he wanted a LC70.....I didn't take it that he was focused on the actual vehicle being a Toyota as much as the general setup being neat.

 

[nickw]

Im going to continue with these comment only to further show that the nature of the flipside of every argument.
No you cant lift a new domestic 1ton to 37s cheap and easy. They have radius arm fronts . They come stock rolling on 31" tires. To lift the required ammount to fit the axles you'd loose wheelbase and caster angle. You'd need radius arm adjustment if not new longer arms, Caster adjustment most likely beyond modified spacers. https://www.carlisuspension.com/product/ford/f250-f350/3-0-suspension-systems/2023-ford-f250-f350-4x4-gas-3-0″-systems/leveling-system-3/
This is the entry for Carli, and its 2,000 for the parts. The reccomended upgrades over this which are things like steering upgrades, longer radius arms, stronger shackles, etc, would take this over 5,000 easily.
Their reccomended package, which is in no way necessary, because its all of their bling, is over 10,000 dollars.

THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE WHEELS AND TIRES.

I'll be more than fair and not even think about labor rates. So alllllll of this means. Same ammount of money can be spent on a Cruiser to do a similar thing.

Now granted, any dipshit with a sawzall and the ability to install a block kit could lift a leaf spring 1ton, or just cut big enough holes for the tires.
But then you are just ignoring all of the complaints you have about leaf spring 70 series trucks.
So those conceptual arguments are effectively cancel each other out. Both trucks of that era are effectively the same.

Again its all just pissing in the wind. One argument just equals the other.

Think of it this way. This guy said I LIKE OPTION A.
You and a few other people said BUT OPTION B IS EQUAL OR BETTER THAN A.
Fine.
He still likes Option A. As do I. So..... it is what it is.

Wrong - $3k + labor for AEV

AEV 3″ Dualsport RT Suspension for 2019+ Ram HD

Engineered for the Real World Today’s marketplace offers dozens of solutions for anyone looking to modify their truck’s suspension, from mild to wild and everywhere in between. There are suspensions designed for going fast, suspensions with flashy components designed for looking good standing...

mainlineoverland.com

 

[MikeIndiaKiloEcho]

I didn't make the diesel mechanic comment amigo.

Fuel consumption is largely a factor of power requirements - hook 10,000 lbs to a LC70 it's going to use about the same amount of fuel as a domestic diesel pickup. Driving around unloaded, LC70 wins, it's lighter duty and weighs a lot less....physics prevails.

Again my man Forest and trees. He never said “I want a LC70 and make it do F350 stuff. “

What I can say is ya can’t make an F350 do LC70 stuff. When it’s trying, you’re pour fuel out the window as you go.

 

[MikeIndiaKiloEcho]

If you wanna use a food analogy, he asked for healthy food and ordered a dozen donuts, is it wrong to recommend a chicken salad if it better meets his requirements?

These people travel all over the world in a full size Ford but I guess they should of talked to you first?

Turtle Expedition » Vehicles

www.turtleexpedition.com

Not sure why he wanted a LC70.....I didn't take it that he was focused on the actual vehicle being a Toyota as much as the general setup being neat.

The turtle expedition part of your arguments is the most laughable.

These people are awesome. Do they travel, or explore the same way people in a 70 series do? No. No they don’t. He literally has a small crane to move the wheels when he needs to replace them.
They are also, in the most recent photos, using a 25 year old F550.
That’s a 7.3 international engine.
So your power argument is completely out the window. (Edit because I forgot to add it: So are your payload claims.)

Its leaf sprung all around.
So your comfort arguments are out the window.

The Wheels are completely custom made. It’s on a 6”lift, custom drive shafts, cut and turned axles, the tires the Army uses on MRAPs.

The entire vehicle is fully custom. It’s the more expedition minded equivalent of an EarthRoamer. It’s actually a small house. It costs as much as a small house. It actually is their home.
They actually live in that vehicle. The truck was given to them as they had Ford as a SPONSOR. All of the suspension work and stuff was Sponsored.

The OP wished for a 70 series with an RTT

If he asked about bass boats you offer up the USS Enterprise.

Classic.

 

[MikeIndiaKiloEcho]

If you wanna use a food analogy, he asked for healthy food and ordered a dozen donuts, is it wrong to recommend a chicken salad if it better meets his requirements?

These people travel all over the world in a full size Ford but I guess they should of talked to you first?

Turtle Expedition » Vehicles

www.turtleexpedition.com

Not sure why he wanted a LC70.....I didn't take it that he was focused on the actual vehicle being a Toyota as much as the general setup being neat.

“Not sure why he wanted a LC70.....I didn't take it that he was focused on the actual vehicle being a Toyota as much as the general setup being neat.”

Tell me you’re missing the point without saying the words…..
THE THREAD IS CALLED UNOBTANIUM!!!!!!!!’

You can buy the back end of the trucks he pictured all over the US. He wished for the one thing he can’t have! A new 70 series. That’s the unobtanium.
Holy…., you can’t define forest for trees any better man. Congratulations

 

[MikeIndiaKiloEcho]

Wrong - $3k + labor for AEV

AEV 3″ Dualsport RT Suspension for 2019+ Ram HD

Engineered for the Real World Today’s marketplace offers dozens of solutions for anyone looking to modify their truck’s suspension, from mild to wild and everywhere in between. There are suspensions designed for going fast, suspensions with flashy components designed for looking good standing...

mainlineoverland.com

Oh Christ, this is the most perfect.

I said you can’t just lift a 2500 for cheap.
I post a Carli lift for $2k.

Your response is (let me check this….) “Wrong, $3k + Labor for AEV. “

I love how you’re making my arguments for me!

 

[MikeIndiaKiloEcho]

If you wanna use a food analogy, he asked for healthy food and ordered a dozen donuts, is it wrong to recommend a chicken salad if it better meets his requirements?

These people travel all over the world in a full size Ford but I guess they should of talked to you first?

Turtle Expedition » Vehicles

www.turtleexpedition.com

Not sure why he wanted a LC70.....I didn't take it that he was focused on the actual vehicle being a Toyota as much as the general setup being neat.

This thing about the food. It really interesting you worded it this way.

I said he asked for a pizza you offered a burger. In saying that I compared two food items that have meat, cheese, bread, tomatoes, etc.

Your response here’s says he asked for “healthy food” and ordered a dozen doughnuts…

Those are qualifiers you put on it. Those qualifiers are judgements. Can you define healthy? Why the doughnuts aren’t?
It’s also funny to me that the guy pushing domestic trucks claimed chicken tossed in mayonnaise is healthy. But whatever.

You injected your opinion on to what he chose before you even understood what he chose, or, as explained above in other replies. WHY HE CHOSE IT.

Every time you speak you offer another example of my argument.

OP said he wanted one thing.
YOU are saying what you like is better.

You can be reading from a list of verifiable facts. A list of plain truth! It still isn’t “correct” in the context of the OPs point. Cause it isn’t what he wanted.

If my little kid wants a lollipop I can’t hand him a marshmallow. It’s pure sugar, it’s the same thing right? NO!

Kid asked you for a Basketball to practice free throws, do you hand him a Football, tee and a kicking net?
Inflated ball, same amount of points… ball in a net… same thing right?

A guy waxes poetic about a 53 Vette. Do you chime in, why not a Mid Nineties M3? Rear wheel drive, straight six, two door coupe? It’s better!
No! You don’t.

Another guy asks for a Rivian. Do you hand him the keys to a Cybertruck? It’s a 4wd EV. Stainless Baby!!! Joe Rogan shot an Arrow at this thing!
None of that matters! It’s not a Rivian!

No matter how far it goes, YOU think YOU are right. Because YOU are factually correct about the only points YOU care about.
Never mind YOU aren’t the OP, and YOU are completely ignoring the reasons he brought his post up.

When you are in your bubble, everyone in the bubble will agree, because they like the bubble, they share the confirmation bias you have.
Outside the bubble. That bias is based on opinions, and context, and preference. It isn’t “wrong” it also isn’t “right”. It just is.

The Turtle Expeditions thing is a perfect example. It’s a very perfect example of doing what we do in a very specific way, from a very domestic mindset. It’s very apropos of your bubble.

There is also this: https://www.4xoverland.com/hero-builds-at-4xoverland/
Not a single domestic, or even full size rig in the bunch. This guy is not wrong. Neither are the folks from Turtle Expeditions.

If you’re in the USA in the 80’s and tell people you want to drive around the world. Detroit will hand you a truck from Detroit.
If you’re doing the same thing in SA, the options are going to be very different. Not wrong, just different.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a Russian equivalent old guy, who did it all in A Lada or a UAZ.

Different strokes, different folks, different bubbles.
All correct in their bubbles, All incorrect outside their bubbles.

 

[nickw]

Oh Christ, this is the most perfect.

I said you can’t just lift a 2500 for cheap.
I post a Carli lift for $2k.

Your response is (let me check this….) “Wrong, $3k + Labor for AEV. “

I love how you’re making my arguments for me!

You keeping backing down from you original comment:

"Speaking of suspension. No, my dear friend, a stock 2500 or 3500 can not take 37" tires. Even the vehicle you show in that video is lifted, has a body kit and wheel flares. I can only imagine it has a big brake kit as well. So after adding 10-15k to a 65k (or more) truck... sure you have a "Capable" vehicle. Which means... straight comparison... yeah, you can do that to a 70 series as well."

Enjoy arguing with yourself.....I'm done....

 

[IdaSHO]

I know you two are having fun.... but all you need to do is a simple google search to find forum threads with regards to 37's
They fit on new Superduty trucks, F250/350 with nothing more than a leveling kit.

2022 f350,, 37s with a 2.5" leveling kit? - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

2017 - 2022 Super Duty - 2022 f350,, 37s with a 2.5" leveling kit? - I ordered my 22 f350 in mid October so I'm still waiting but I'd like to get ready with a wheel and tire combo. I had 35x12.5x20s on my 12 leveled with stock 8 wheels. I'm looking to go with aftermarket 9 wheels with no...

www.ford-trucks.com

And for what its worth, I fit 35's with room to spare on my 2011. Plenty of room to run snow chains even.
I have no doubt 37's would fit with a bit of trimming, or with the simple understanding that I couldnt run snow chains.

And I have less than $800 in suspension to do it. Heavy duty coils and leafs (general spring), in order to haul the camper safer, that happened to net about 2-1/2" of lift over factory.
At this height, it doesnt even need an adjustable track bar.

 

[MikeIndiaKiloEcho]

You keeping backing down from you original comment:

"Speaking of suspension. No, my dear friend, a stock 2500 or 3500 can not take 37" tires. Even the vehicle you show in that video is lifted, has a body kit and wheel flares. I can only imagine it has a big brake kit as well. So after adding 10-15k to a 65k (or more) truck... sure you have a "Capable" vehicle. Which means... straight comparison... yeah, you can do that to a 70 series as well."

Enjoy arguing with yourself.....I'm done....

Read my argument. Now regard the context. of what I said.
Your comments in context concern Capability and all are in context of the pictures you use as examples. You showed a lift, Body Kit, Flares, Wheels, and Tires.
I found a solid, very reputable lift kit, Which addressed all of the issues of maintaining the Stock dimensional Capabilities of the suspension, upgrading performance, while housing 37" tires.
The kit I showed was $2,200. The suggested upgrades for stock like steering feel and upgraded durability were another $2k or so?

Your response to how everything isnt as expensive as I showed, was a link to an EVEN MORE EXPENSIVE kit.

I know you two are having fun.... but all you need to do is a simple google search to find forum threads with regards to 37's
They fit on new Superduty trucks, F250/350 with nothing more than a leveling kit.

2022 f350,, 37s with a 2.5" leveling kit? - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

2017 - 2022 Super Duty - 2022 f350,, 37s with a 2.5" leveling kit? - I ordered my 22 f350 in mid October so I'm still waiting but I'd like to get ready with a wheel and tire combo. I had 35x12.5x20s on my 12 leveled with stock 8 wheels. I'm looking to go with aftermarket 9 wheels with no...

www.ford-trucks.com

And for what its worth, I fit 35's with room to spare on my 2011. Plenty of room to run snow chains even.
I have no doubt 37's would fit with a bit of trimming, or with the simple understanding that I couldnt run snow chains.

And I have less than $800 in suspension to do it. Heavy duty coils and leafs (general spring), in order to haul the camper safer, that happened to net about 2-1/2" of lift over factory.
At this height, it doesnt even need an adjustable track bar.

Now IdaSHO,
I do realize there are ways to fit Big Circles Into Big Holes. I even made a comment earlier that anyone with a sawzall and a couple blocks can fit damn near anything under a truck. I believe theree is a Dirt EveryDay episode where they cut and tucked 54" tires into a F450. Making what they called a F454 or something like that.
THere are guys on the street squeezing full Semi wheels and tires under 450s and 550s. They are running airbags because any sag makes them rub but they do it.

My contest to the comments that 37s will just fit in are based on exactly what you said, They might fit with some trimming and you can't use chains... which means clearance at times is pretty tight. I could imagine that with a heavy load and a pretty awfull day over very soft ground those 37s could make for some issues with clearance if they are just placed under the truck with no other adjustments. Does that offer the same level of Capability? Id argue, NO, it does not. Simply because if you take a vehicle that come stock with 31 or 33" tires and place 37' tires in their stead you are eliminating a very specific ammount of uptravel. You are also going to deal with turning radius issues if you are concerned with rubbing in a 350 (Probably not a 450 or 550) if you are using stock wheels. There are always some compromises.

Does this matter to the different types of drivers out there? For some? No. For Some Others? Yes.
In order to compare Apples to Apples, If its big lift kits, wheels, and tires. You can do that to either truck, so thats a wash. If its cutting and what not, same thing. Thats a wash.

What we can't say is that You can do a cheap shove of some tires into one where you cant do it to another.
There are plenty videos available of 70's and 80's running 37" tires in Australia.
For the full leaf spring trucks just going spring over (Which is also its own issue entirely), will allow 36-37's. DO I think thats easy to do? NO. Some will tell you with just a welder and a new drive shaft you can do it by yourself. I'm not going to make that argument, I think that qualifies as massive work. At the same time the parts list has a substantially lower cost if you are going DIY. There are always compromises.

The main thing is if you want to retain the same up travel and down travel, the same caster, the same steering ability, and the same turning radius. You need to purchase some expensive parts for a radius arm suspension. You also need to do some solid labor as well. whether its a 70 series or its a F350. One truck doesn't offer some magic wheel wells where all is easy and cheap.
There are always compromises.