Unobtainum

[MikeIndiaKiloEcho]

Whole other thing that just dawned on me.

Isn’t this a thread in the LandCruiser forum? Why the hate? Go post on the domestic threads.

 

[MikeIndiaKiloEcho]

Toyotas of War

Toyotas of War and conflict. Past and present. From the instagram page @toyotasofwar

toyotasofwar.com

Just stumbled on this.

Every Domestic is always in the desert plains.

Now Im not saying I know for a fact..... I just find it interesting that it always seems to look like that. Could also be my confirmation bias talking here.

Also, not for nothing, the Heavy Duty chassis series is classified as a 1 ton. They're just smaller. I know the old Nissan Patrols the UN used (GQ?) were all rated as one tons.
My 62 is a Heavy Duty Chassis that was a fire truck. had a water pump and everything.
Now yes there are domestic trucks that are built out as brush trucks and pumper trucks. THose are all 550's and 5500's though. those are 5/4 tons. Which Should say something. They are wider, completely different axles, lower tune and gear ratios. That should say something too.

 

[2025 deleted member]

Whole other thing that just dawned on me.

Isn’t this a thread in the LandCruiser forum? Why the hate? Go post on the domestic threads.

I dont think anyone is hating. I only own Toyotas, my daily is a LC100. You are comparing things based on market availability and regional preferences. A new F350 gas truck is more capable than a 70series cruiser, regardless of my love for the cruiser.

 

[MikeIndiaKiloEcho]

I dont think anyone is hating. I only own Toyotas, my daily is a LC100. You are comparing things based on market availability and regional preferences. A new F350 gas truck is more capable than a 70series cruiser, regardless of my love for the cruiser.

That is said as a statement of fact. What defines capability? When you look into that, fact become more like opinion.
If its just numbers. HP, LbFt, Towing, Bed capacity, maybe.

Do front approach and rear approach as clearance numbers and break over count for defining Capability?
Does MPG?

If it is, where it does what it does, or, how it will do that. That is a shockingly different set of modifiers for context isnt it?

When MB decided to offer the G wagen as a tradesman truck in Australia they had a series of GWagens do the Simpson Desert. If I remember right, the shocks gave out and they put in uprated bilsteins and the trucks went through with out a hitch. there are a ton of videos on that.

Ford and Dodge have Imported the 250-550 and the 2500-5500 series into Australia for years. I have seen many videos on people comparing them to landcruisers. I havent seen one where they torture test it, definitely not one where it survived with flying colors. Most came to the conclusion that they are super well equiped, absolutely huge, and perfect for towing a huge boat.

So what defines capability?

In a world where you want to tow a gooseneck trailer with 33,000 lbs of horses or farm related whatnot accross Nebraska. Im not going to argue. A 350 is a great tool.
IF I was going to run a cab chassis with a box or flatbed for delivering Industrial materials to jobsites, or a gooseneck to pull a race tralieror what not. The standard 350 would be absolutely horrible. A 450 of 550 would be what you want.

You could go anywhere in the world in a 40-50-60-70-80-100-or 200 series. A 350-550 couldnt follow you in most places.

So it all depends on the determination of "capable".

 

[MikeIndiaKiloEcho]

I dont think anyone is hating. I only own Toyotas, my daily is a LC100. You are comparing things based on market availability and regional preferences. A new F350 gas truck is more capable than a 70series cruiser, regardless of my love for the cruiser.

Now, for why it sounds like youre hating....
You come to subforum devoted to landcruisers, where someone says they wished they could have a 70 series. You decide to join in with the couples of people who keep pushing that domestic trucks are better.
Its like going to a bowling alley and complaining the balls are round.
Pick your crowd man.

 

[brunjc2]

Now, for why it sounds like youre hating....
You come to subforum devoted to landcruisers, where someone says they wished they could have a 70 series. You decide to join in with the couples of people who keep pushing that domestic trucks are better.
Its like going to a bowling alley and complaining the balls are round.
Pick your crowd man.

You ok my dude?

 

[2025 deleted member]

Now, for why it sounds like youre hating....
You come to subforum devoted to landcruisers, where someone says they wished they could have a 70 series. You decide to join in with the couples of people who keep pushing that domestic trucks are better.
Its like going to a bowling alley and complaining the balls are round.
Pick your crowd man.

I’m in the right crowd- I don’t expect fellow Toyota fans to be so defensive..😆I love the brand but I’m a realist.

 

[brunjc2]

I’m in the right crowd- I don’t expect fellow Toyota fans to be so defensive..😆I love the brand but I’m a realist.

I love my 80 series, 70 series are super rad. So is a 3/4 ton truck. Heck, I even like LR3s. Horses for courses.

Brand dogma is an unfortunate disease.

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[MikeIndiaKiloEcho]

You ok my dude?

Of course I’m fine.
My points are multi fold.
One, realism, as it is now being related, is relative. Facts when being delivered in this manner, hit different depending on the context.

Two the nature of the contradicting posts are awkward considering the context of these posts.

Let us remove the whole brand issue, the domestic issue, hell…. Let’s remove the vehicles entirely.

Imagine this was a sub-forum about Citrus fruits.
A person makes post about Oranges saying “you know what I wish I had right now? Some Blood Oranges, the color of the juice is so cool, the flavor… I wish I had a few of those right now instead of the regular Valencias I usually have.”
Then someone replies, “Apples are better. Why would you bother with blood oranges?”
Some others down the road chime in with quotes about fiber content and use in pies….”
When it’s a sub forum about oranges….

What the hell do apples have to do with it?

 

[nickw]

Okay, I realize this is a slightly old thread.
Yeah there are flat bed options available here in the states.
I've owned Domestic One tons. They are huge. Immense. Massive.
At least a foot wider easily than a 70 series.
Domestic One tons are also HEAVY. IMMENSE. OBESE.
Most importantly... They ride like ********. They dont really carry their weight very well. Massive engines and tons of steel really far above the axles. seat perched high to see over the massive engine sit like a barstool. Feet way low. Everything is too tall.
They are insanely heavy. They gain their strength through mass Dana Axles are cast housings. If they are going to make them stronger they need to be thicker and larger. Domestic Axles use U joints. Toyotas have Birfields. Toyota axle housings are formed and welded, If they want to make it stronger they can change the material, plate stock etc....
The Toyotas are great examples of doing more with less. They are still solid. Millions of photos all over the net will show you heavily overloaded Toyotas loaded to the gills forty years old or more putting away in South America, Africa, Afghanistan.... wherever.
That said, have you ever seen a Domestic One ton Technical? (I'm sure there is at least one photo out there). To the US Military a One ton is used for on base freight and towing. The Toyotas are actually used over seas in military opperations and applications. Even by the US Military. Hell, there is actually a Legitimatly named "Toyota War" between Libya and Chad. Where Chad kicked Libyas heavily funded and equipped asses by using Toyota 60 and 70 series land cruisers to out manuver, out drive, and out perform the Libyan army.

Do you see the forestry service use them? Yes. Why? Well, they are available. US Government is usually controlled to buy domestic vehicles.
The Chicken Tax also falls into this conversation as well. Why do you see Domestic trucks at farms in the USA? Well.... They are available. Comparably sized farms in Africa and Australia have been using LCs for decades because they have, they are available. thats all.

All of this said. Many mining operations... run 70 series. because they are more rugged and they are smaller....

New 70 series trucks are expensive as I under stand. The picture you show here is of an AEM Prospector Ram.... Thats over 100k.
The Wheels and Tires alone are damn near 5k. The engine tuning is even more expensive, and even after all of that.... it still rides horribly.
What do I drive now?

After years of domestic trucks. One Tons and the like? Notice how my 60 series High roof, which was made for Firemen sitting on a raised rear seat wearing helmets. Is at the same height as the Silverado sitting next to it? I get far better Milage too.

Now all of this said. Ya run what ya brung.
You drive what you like and what you are comfortable with. IF for you, that means you like Domestic trucks. Thats great. For me, its an old toyota.
Some guys like Scotch, some like Bourbon and Rye.
Neither one is wrong. Coke and Pepsi. Maybe for you, Ford Vs Dodge.

Im sure we all have opinions with how you equip a truck as well.
Hell I think those dog house style canopy rigs are a waste of material. Again, thats me.
Be you, You do you.

The only reason the LC's are used in mines are the physical size - there are some manuf. making custom mine trucks (name escapes me) that is basically the size of a 70 and uses domestic parts.

I think you are confusing reliability and capability, for abuse without maintenance not much beats a LC70.

Have you ridden in a 70 series? They ride like crap, nothing unique about their sus setup which is sim to a domestic 3/4 & 1 T, leaf and/or coil combo. Stiff is stiff, which you need for load carrying which is why a Tacoma rides nice and a HD Hilux doesn't.

I don't think Birfields are inherently stronger than U-joints, they both have pros and cons.

 

[nickw]

That is said as a statement of fact. What defines capability? When you look into that, fact become more like opinion.
If its just numbers. HP, LbFt, Towing, Bed capacity, maybe.

Do front approach and rear approach as clearance numbers and break over count for defining Capability?
Does MPG?

If it is, where it does what it does, or, how it will do that. That is a shockingly different set of modifiers for context isnt it?

When MB decided to offer the G wagen as a tradesman truck in Australia they had a series of GWagens do the Simpson Desert. If I remember right, the shocks gave out and they put in uprated bilsteins and the trucks went through with out a hitch. there are a ton of videos on that.

Ford and Dodge have Imported the 250-550 and the 2500-5500 series into Australia for years. I have seen many videos on people comparing them to landcruisers. I havent seen one where they torture test it, definitely not one where it survived with flying colors. Most came to the conclusion that they are super well equiped, absolutely huge, and perfect for towing a huge boat.

So what defines capability?

In a world where you want to tow a gooseneck trailer with 33,000 lbs of horses or farm related whatnot accross Nebraska. Im not going to argue. A 350 is a great tool.
IF I was going to run a cab chassis with a box or flatbed for delivering Industrial materials to jobsites, or a gooseneck to pull a race tralieror what not. The standard 350 would be absolutely horrible. A 450 of 550 would be what you want.

You could go anywhere in the world in a 40-50-60-70-80-100-or 200 series. A 350-550 couldnt follow you in most places.

So it all depends on the determination of "capable".

Lots of guys like the Rams in Aus too - they have a clear payload advantage and can handle much larger tires due to their clearance and bigger/stronger axles over a 70:


People go all over the world with Unimogs, I think a Ram 3500, single cab is somewhere between a Mog and a LC70.

What LC70's have going for them is reliability and parts supply in much of the EU, Australia, Africa and S America.

I don't think Domestic trucks are built better, but as you point out define what you need "Capability" wise and check that compared to vehicles available, if you need 37" tires and a 2000 kg payload capacity, you can cross a 70 series off your list and there is not reason to step up to a Mog that is 2-3x the price of a Ram.

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

The only reason the LC's are used in mines are the physical size

I suggest that is not the case.
Most mines in Oz are open cut & size is not an issue. It comes back to life and reliability. They use almost nothing else except Toyotas.
Same applies to cattle stations. Most working vehicles are 70s with maybe a couple of Hiluxs.
We worked on a cattle station for a couple of months a while back. This is some of their fleet.


They have 3 dedicated mustering vehicles. They were built from old Troopies. They never come out of low range 4WD.


Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[nickw]

I suggest that is not the case.
Most mines in Oz are open cut & size is not an issue. It comes back to life and reliability. They use almost nothing else except Toyotas.
Same applies to cattle stations. Most working vehicles are 70s with maybe a couple of Hiluxs.
We worked on a cattle station for a couple of months a while back. This is some of their fleet.
View attachment 870596

They have 3 dedicated mustering vehicles. They were built from old Troopies. They never come out of low range 4WD.
View attachment 870595

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

It was in reference to the USA - use inside underground mines is dictated by physical constraints. In open pit mines like you mention, again in the USA, you see domestic trucks. Of course in Australia it's LC's, it's what is available and known and been used for years so it makes sense.