Upgrading the jeeps rear dif

[JPK]

Here is a quote from a JP magazine TJ buyers' guide discussing non-Rubicon axles:

"T-Case, Axles, & Steering
The T-case in any standard TJ is going to be the excellent NV231J with 2.72:1 Low, which like the TJ itself, enjoys an arsenal of aftermarket support. Axles in standard TJs are low-pinion Dana 30s in the front with no center axle disconnect and 3.07, 3.55, or 3.73 gears for six-cylinder or 4.10 cogs for the four-cylinders. Out back, all four-cylinder models got the Dana 35, while the Dana 44 with 30-spline shafts was available on six-cylinder Sahara and some Wrangler X trim levels. The Dana 44 is a real boon and can same you a lot of money on a mildly-build vehicle. The low-pinion TJ Dana 30 can be replaced with a high-pinion Dana 30 from an XJ for a little more strength since it's a bolt-in swap. All TJs run the same steering setup that employs a J-bend at the passenger-side tie rod to clear the knuckle at full-turn. This is a very common problem spot, so check for a previously-bent and straightened links if the vehicle you're looking at looks like it's been wheeled hard."

Apparently the D44's were available on Saharas and some 4.0 equipped X's. Lets hope Capt' Eddie has D44's.

Here's a link to the whole guide: http://www.jpmagazine.com/featuredvehicles/154_1001_jeep_wrangler_tj_buyers_guide/index.html

JPK

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Wow, there is a crapload of misinformation in this thread. Firstly, the OP has a 95, indicating he has a YJ and not a TJ. Secondly, only Canadian model YJ's had the factory d44 option. And lastly, he will be fine with a rear locker as long as he uses common sense. As stated, I ran one for 7 years in a much heavier vehicle with a slightly stronger engine and never broke an axle. And to address the front locker idea, they are about useless in any uphill situation, because the weight transfers to the rear and the front has very little traction with or without a locker.

Please don't ever start a statement with "I think" when addressing the technical aspects of a Jeep.

 

[BIGdaddy]

Hi All, So after almost getting stuck about three miles from nowhere. It is clear I need to upgrade from the open rear dif.

What are my options and a ballpark estimate of cost on a locking or limited slip rear dif?

The jeep is a 1995 wrangler with a 4.0 and a manuel trans.

Ok, so first of all, I think it's awesome you're getting out into the boonies. Second, your YJ is an excellent rig for exploring and is a solid platform for what you want to do.

As far as you getting stuck and immediately deciding you need to put a locker in your differential...I'd ask a few questions of you before I recommend anything:

1. What kind of terrain were you in at the time? (and what terrain do you usually find yourself in)
2. were there any factors that could have caused you to get stuck? (for example, I got stuck in sand near the coast a while back in my XJ, because I had to make a sudden stop in a deep area. One yank from a passing jeep and I was on my way for the rest of the day. No problems)
3. What did you have with you to extract yourself from the situation? How did you get out?
4. What type of use does this truck get? (Daily driver/weekend warrior, trailered toy that only see's offroad use, etc...)


Very interested in your answers!
Cheers,
Brian

 

[bat]

In my case running the same trails in with no front locker and running with a front locker useless did not come to mind.

 

[goin camping]

Ok, so first of all, I think it's awesome you're getting out into the boonies. Second, your YJ is an excellent rig for exploring and is a solid platform for what you want to do.

As far as you getting stuck and immediately deciding you need to put a locker in your differential...I'd ask a few questions of you before I recommend anything:

1. What kind of terrain were you in at the time? (and what terrain do you usually find yourself in)
2. were there any factors that could have caused you to get stuck? (for example, I got stuck in sand near the coast a while back in my XJ, because I had to make a sudden stop in a deep area. One yank from a passing jeep and I was on my way for the rest of the day. No problems)
3. What did you have with you to extract yourself from the situation? How did you get out?
4. What type of use does this truck get? (Daily driver/weekend warrior, trailered toy that only see's offroad use, etc...)


Very interested in your answers!
Cheers,
Brian

Hi Brian,

Let me lay out the scenario for you and the others as I think it will help everyone in helping me.

1, Mojave desert on a dirt trail. Like most of the desert it's hardpack with soft underneath.

2&3, The details in this case was a steep downhill that crossed a one foot across and one foot deep dry water course and a steep uphill immediately. I scraped the back bumper as I started up. Part way up the left rear and right front dug themselves in.

Backed up a few feet turned the wheels a bit and powered around the divots up ten feet to the top. Took two tries.

4, It's a 95 YJ with a 4.0 and a 5 speed. Mechanically it is stock but came with a Warn winch on the front.

I use this jeep as a desert putter. I live on a dirt road and right outside my gate are miles of dirt roads that range from wide and smooth to thin and weathered. I am on the foothills of the Northern side of the Angeles National Forrest so the terrain goes from flat to straight up and everything in between.

My driving style is to pick my path and putt along. I enjoy slow cruising around. For my speed fix I have a bike. So there is not any skinny pedal madness in my fourwheeling.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

My driving style is to pick my path and putt along. I enjoy slow cruising around. For my speed fix I have a bike. So there is not any skinny pedal madness in my fourwheeling.

Pick your path, as in blazing your own trail? I really hope not....

 

[BIGdaddy]

Hi Brian,

Let me lay out the scenario for you and the others as I think it will help everyone in helping me.

1, Mojave desert on a dirt trail. Like most of the desert it's hardpack with soft underneath.

2&3, The details in this case was a steep downhill that crossed a one foot across and one foot deep dry water course and a steep uphill immediately. I scraped the back bumper as I started up. Part way up the left rear and right front dug themselves in.

Backed up a few feet turned the wheels a bit and powered around the divots up ten feet to the top. Took two tries.

4, It's a 95 YJ with a 4.0 and a 5 speed. Mechanically it is stock but came with a Warn winch on the front.

I use this jeep as a desert putter. I live on a dirt road and right outside my gate are miles of dirt roads that range from wide and smooth to thin and weathered. I am on the foothills of the Northern side of the Angeles National Forrest so the terrain goes from flat to straight up and everything in between.

My driving style is to pick my path and putt along. I enjoy slow cruising around. For my speed fix I have a bike. So there is not any skinny pedal madness in my fourwheeling.

OK, great, that's a ton of good info.

I gotta get some work done, but once I'm at home I'll put my .02 cents in..

Cheers, brohemian!

-B

 

[goin camping]

Pick your path, as in blazing your own trail? I really hope not....

To save you from jumping to another wrong conclusion.

When I pick my path. It means I choose where on the trail to put my tires. This ensures I don't hit rocks with diffs or drop a wheel into a hole.

Cheers

 

[bat]

How much air do you run in the tires on the jeep

 

[goin camping]

How much air do you run in the tires on the jeep

Since the jeep has not been on a paved road in a few years. I usually keep them around 25psi.

 

[BIGdaddy]

Some of my thoughts in red, below:

Hi Brian,

Let me lay out the scenario for you and the others as I think it will help everyone in helping me.

1, Mojave desert on a dirt trail. Like most of the desert it's hardpack with soft underneath.

2&3, The details in this case was a steep downhill that crossed a one foot across and one foot deep dry water course and a steep uphill immediately. I scraped the back bumper as I started up. Part way up the left rear and right front dug themselves in.

Backed up a few feet turned the wheels a bit and powered around the divots up ten feet to the top. Took two tries.

Ok, so, to me, this sounds like you did a good job keeping your head, assessing the situation and trying a different tactic...Sounds like you might be worried that you "almost" got stuck, if I'm hearing you correctly

4, It's a 95 YJ with a 4.0 and a 5 speed. Mechanically it is stock but came with a Warn winch on the front.

Sounds like a solid rig. I'm going to agree with the other folks and say that a pull-pal should be high on your list, as it is very good at giving you a winch point, where nothing else is available. You've already got the winch, so you're halfway there!

I use this jeep as a desert putter. I live on a dirt road and right outside my gate are miles of dirt roads that range from wide and smooth to thin and weathered. I am on the foothills of the Northern side of the Angeles National Forrest so the terrain goes from flat to straight up and everything in between.

For this type of terrain, as well as the mellow driving style you mentioned below, i'd say you want to maximize the stock configuration of your rig before adding a locker with these simple/reletively inexpensive mods:
1. Remove your rear sway bar
2. Install JKS quicker disconnects for your front sway bar (both those mods will allow for maximum articulation that will keep your tires on the ground)
3. Make sure you have an agressive set of AT tires (treadwrights are good, cheap tires for such a light rig)


My driving style is to pick my path and putt along. I enjoy slow cruising around. For my speed fix I have a bike. So there is not any skinny pedal madness in my fourwheeling.

If you've picked up a pullpal, and done the things above, I'd say wheel a bit more, and if you come up to a situation where you actually are completely stuck and unrecoverable, then go ahead and put in a drop-in locker like a spartan or an aussie. I really don't think you'll have an issue with strength, as your driving style will likely not stress the d35 past it's limits.

Sorry this took so long. Looong, busy night once I got home from work.

Good luck with what you decide to do!

 

[JPK]

I think BigDaddy hit some good points.

One free improvement you can make is to drop the tire pressure more. Try 15psi and see how it goes.

 

[goin camping]

Thanks BigDaddy and everyone else for your insights. Time for me to have a think.

Feel free to add any more thoughts you all may have.

 

[bat]

Dropping the air pressure will help out and give you a better float over the sand. Another thing to consider before buying anything and not knowing your experience is to take a class. The class would be in the field in your own vehicle, this could be winching use or driving in the sand to better your understanding. Not knowing your experience and going out and buying pull pal and never using a winch might not be the best thing.

 

[jeffy]

For this type of terrain, as well as the mellow driving style you mentioned below, i'd say you want to maximize the stock configuration of your rig before adding a locker with these simple/reletively inexpensive mods:
1. Remove your rear sway bar
2. Install JKS quicker disconnects for your front sway bar (both those mods will allow for maximum articulation that will keep your tires on the ground)
3. Make sure you have an agressive set of AT tires (treadwrights are good, cheap tires for such a light rig)

I agree and I'd take it a step further. Remove the front track-bar as well. You said it's not a road going Jeep so it won't matter much anyway. Not to mention you risk damaging the mounts or cracking the axle tube if you try to flex with the track bars on. Disconnects on the front won't help much with the front track bar in place either. You will also want to either get longer brake lines or relocate your lines under the frame to gain about 4-6" of additional length. Although your shocks will now me the limiting factor so you might also consider changing those as well. For the rear, you could extend the hardline down or better yet, replace the line with a longer one. Having more flex then tearing a brakeline while out in some remote area isn't fun.

The Dana 35C is really hit & miss. Some guy's seem to do OK with them while others seem to break if you just look at them funny. Vehicle weight and how you drive play a bit part in it though. The axle shaft is only 1.13" thick as it tapers down to the splines. This is where 90% of the breaks happen. Although if you don't use too much throttle and don't get the wheel hopping, I think it would be OK. Most of the breaks I've seen are because the driver get a wheel up in the air then when it drops back down, it hooks up and the shock load on the axle is what breaks it. or else tweaks the shaft enough that it doesn't break until late with a much lighter load.

I think JPK's recommendation for 15psi is a good call as well. If you're on stock tires of even 235.75R15's or 31x10.5R15's 25psi isn't going to allow the tire to conform to the terrain much. 15psi is a good number since it's enough pressure that you shouldn't have to worry about breaking the bead but still low enough to allow the tire to do it's thing. The only downside is that now you'll need to be able to air up after the trail.

I also like the pull-pal idea. If you're problem is not having an anchor point then you don't really have the right equipment. There are several ways to winch when there are no solid object to tie to. Anchoring stakes or burring a deadman, like a tire have been used for many years. Some people have even used boat anchors back in the day. This is what the Pull-Pal replaces. If you are mainly doing trails in the desert then I would highly recommend the Pull-pal since you winch is otherwise useless with just the hook.