Upper A-Arm Problems (Taco/4Run/FJC)
- Thread starter Redline
- Start date
The light racing UCA's might be the ticket for my 6" Lift?? I'm ordering a set to try it out.
FYI did you guys know that Wheelers offroad sells these for $395 regular price. NO GB needed.:clapsmile
Contact Jason at wheelers.
http://www.wheelersoffroad.com/sptacoarms.htm
Good Luck!
FYI did you guys know that Wheelers offroad sells these for $395 regular price. NO GB needed.:clapsmile
Contact Jason at wheelers.
http://www.wheelersoffroad.com/sptacoarms.htm
Good Luck!
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Actually with the stock UCA's and the 6" lift the alignment # are low by about 1* of CASTER. I plan on cranking up my CO's so I would probably need 2* of caster. Which these just might be the ticket for.Redline said:
The Rep said it would take about 5 days to get here. So we'll see? If it doesn't work then it's back to the drawing board.
Oh? FYI: I have a FabTech 6" lift on my truck.
Redline said:
Hey "Redline" can you tell me the name of the engineer that gave you this information?
They claim 45* off centerline range of travel? I just got the set of Light Racing UCA;s and by my calculations it's between 15*-20* off centerline.
That is terrible!
The stock UCA's have better angle off centerline.
The stock UCA's get 35*-38.5* off centerline as stated.
I need to contact them about this. Maybe the one's I have are defective?
If you have their contact info (The person who actually claimed 45* off centerline) I would like to talk to him.
Thank you!
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Redline
Likes to Drive and Ride
The information you quoted that I had posted was something I found on the web, don't remember if it was another forum or from the LR website. But all that technical info was not from a telephone conversation.
FYI, I have my LR upper A-arms on now and after they were adjusted properly, so far so good. I wasn't looking for maximum flex, just longevity/reliability.
FYI, I have my LR upper A-arms on now and after they were adjusted properly, so far so good. I wasn't looking for maximum flex, just longevity/reliability.
toku58 said:
UPDATE:
Well it's been a while but I finally got the good set of Ball Joints from SPC.
Both of these are at their maximum articulation:
The one on the bottom can clearly move a lot more. It appears that they needed to remanufacture the ball joints that's why it took so long.
There's a BIG Difference, in range of movement. They look identical but the top one CAN'T move very much.
They have great CS So I'm sure if yours are bad, they will correct it A.S.A.P!
Good Luck Guys/Gals!
Well it's been a while but I finally got the good set of Ball Joints from SPC.
Both of these are at their maximum articulation:
The one on the bottom can clearly move a lot more. It appears that they needed to remanufacture the ball joints that's why it took so long.
There's a BIG Difference, in range of movement. They look identical but the top one CAN'T move very much.
They have great CS So I'm sure if yours are bad, they will correct it A.S.A.P!
Good Luck Guys/Gals!
Redline
Likes to Drive and Ride
The mechanic that installed the Light Racing A-Arms/ball joints for me originally remembered that it seemed like the ball joints had very limited movement/angularity, but we didn't measure or compare them to the All-Pro Uniballs we removed.
Is there a way to tell if the LR ball joints installed on my 4Runner are to spec without removing them from the car? I just measured droop travel on the front end, hooping it might tell me something. But aren't there too many variables with droop travel and what is actually restricting the travel to make any determination about the travel/angularity of the ball joint? At full droop to my eye it doesn’t look any better than the picture of the bare joint posted by toku58.
My car doesn’t sit exactly level... a bit lower on the left side:
Static on tires:
Left Fender bottom: 37 7/16”
Right Fender 38”
Full Droop/Floor Jack under skids until tire starts to lift:
Left Fender: 40 8/16”
Right Fender: 40 13/16
About 3-inches on the left, and 2.5” on the right, (but left is 1/2” lower when static).
Any input?
Is there a way to tell if the LR ball joints installed on my 4Runner are to spec without removing them from the car? I just measured droop travel on the front end, hooping it might tell me something. But aren't there too many variables with droop travel and what is actually restricting the travel to make any determination about the travel/angularity of the ball joint? At full droop to my eye it doesn’t look any better than the picture of the bare joint posted by toku58.
My car doesn’t sit exactly level... a bit lower on the left side:
Static on tires:
Left Fender bottom: 37 7/16”
Right Fender 38”
Full Droop/Floor Jack under skids until tire starts to lift:
Left Fender: 40 8/16”
Right Fender: 40 13/16
About 3-inches on the left, and 2.5” on the right, (but left is 1/2” lower when static).
Any input?
toku58 said:UPDATE:
Well it's been a while but I finally got the good set of Ball Joints from SPC.
Both of these are at their maximum articulation:
The one on the bottom can clearly move a lot more. It appears that they needed to remanufacture the ball joints that's why it took so long.
There's a BIG Difference, in range of movement. They look identical but the top one CAN'T move very much.
They have great CS So I'm sure if yours are bad, they will correct it A.S.A.P!
Good Luck Guys/Gals!
Yeah they just sent me the new ball joint. My UCA's are brand new so they just replaced the joint.Redline said:
Sorry for the late response.
The only way to actually tell if your joints are bad would be to remove them.
Or take out the strut and coil assembly and cycle the suspension to see if your UCA's are stopping the down travel.
CapelConcepts
Observer
Redline said:
A lot of times the drivers side sits lower due to the constant weight on the drivers from the driver and the gas tank. I used to work at a company that did a LOT of Tacoma CO and they always sat low on the drivers side.
Redline
Likes to Drive and Ride
I have wanted to update this thread for a while. First I'll address the All-Pro Uniball A-arms.
To refresh, while my 4Runner was in for gears and lockers it was discovered that the bolts running through the All-Pro Uniballs were bent, the right side worse than the left. The bends were near the middle of the bolt, where the bolt lives inside the tapered extension of the Uniball ball-joint.
The taper on the bottom of the ball-joint was not a snug fit as it should be. The tapered end of the ball-joint would easily spin/rotate in the steering upright taper when the nut on the bottom of the ball-joint was turned. The taper on these Uniball joints is built in, not a sleeve/adapter like the pictures shown earlier of the Total Chaos fittings. I didn’t have a camera to document the All Pro taper before they were ground off, but there was clearly not enough length nor proper engagement in the steering arm.
The fix was to cut off the tapered extension on the bottom of the All-Pro Uniball, replace the bent bolts with new Grade-8 9/16” bolts, and have custom tapered sleeve adapters machined to correctly fit the inside of the 4Runner’s steering knuckle.
These are pics of the new, machined, tapered adapters I had made:
Tapered sleeve on the ball-joint bolt:
I was not happy that these modifications were needed. With the modified Uniballs and custom taper/sleeves installed the car drove better, and the steering looseness the car had developed was gone. This fix may have been permanent, but I had a hard time continuing to use a product that ‘was not right’ and that was not supported to my satisfaction.
Light Racing/SPC Upper A-arms w/stock type ball-joint
With the promise of the correct taper for the 4Runner’s steering knuckle (different part numbers for 4Runner/FJC & Tacomas), quiet & smooth operation with equal travel to that of a Uniball, and stock-type longevity, I decided to buy a pair of the recently released Light Racing/Specialty Products upper A-Arms.
I had a mechanic install the Light Racing arms for me, but I was there and assisted and together we decided what position to clock the ball joints for additional caster. It should be noted that Light Racing’s instructions are vague and they need both better pictures and some text to explain how they should be set-up. One of my thoughts choosing the All-Pro Uniball arms over a more adjustable A-Arm like the Icons (in addition to cost!) was that alignment would be easier for most shops to perform. I was correct. After the All-Pro Arms were installed, it was very easy for anyone with an alignment rack to align the 4Runner using the stock adjusters.
In the case of the super adjustability of the Light Racing ball joints, not only was the alignment all screwed-up after installing the A-arms, the first kid that tried to do an alignment couldn’t do it with where we had the ball joints clocked. He tried moving them to a different position but he made it worse. The next day a different guy at the same shop (manager) moved the ball joints and did an alignment that was ‘within spec’. Though within alignment specifications, it was later clear that the set-up was “not right”.
One obvious issue was that this shop thought that the small ‘SPC’ markings on the ball joints needed to face outward, “because all product names always face out”. This was even after I had called SPC and confirmed that the SPC letters would not always face outward, the lettering may face inward or to the rear depending on how the ball joints are clocked. They wouldn’t listen and adjusted them the way they thought they should be. They had a copy of the (poor) instructions but I’m not sure they did much more than look at the few pictures.
After aligning the Light Racing (LPC) arms and doing some light 4-wheeling, I started experiencing some tire rubbing at the rear of the left-front fender that I didn’t have before with the All-Pro A-arms. This may have been because I now had 3.5 - 3.7 degrees of caster, pushing the tires further to the rear than when I was running closer to 2.5 - 2.7 with the All-Pros. Maybe the front springs have relaxed (I don't think so), or I just needed to extend my front bump-stops a bit which I hadn’t done yet.
The Light Racing A-Arms were now set-up okay, and the alignment was within spec per the alignment computer, but my butt meter and some critical thinking told me something wasn't exactly right.
After the recommendation from two friends, both with Land Cruisers, I tried a new alignment shop. This shop can align large RVs (uncommon) and also does custom alignments on lowered, raised, and race vehicles. They are very good. About two weeks ago I explained the issues and they listened. Before making any changes my New Alignment Master ‘Mike’ found that the upper ball joint nut (for adjusting camber) took less than 100-lb-ft to loosen, though it should have been set at 120-lb-ft. Mike first zeroed the stock adjusters, then changed the clock of the ball joints to a better, more neutral position for the amount of lift I have, then did an alignment. This guy is good, exacting and a friendly, pleasant guy. The car drove better than ever and as good as stock. I was very happy - until my first off-highway trip where there was a problem.
To be continued...
To refresh, while my 4Runner was in for gears and lockers it was discovered that the bolts running through the All-Pro Uniballs were bent, the right side worse than the left. The bends were near the middle of the bolt, where the bolt lives inside the tapered extension of the Uniball ball-joint.
The taper on the bottom of the ball-joint was not a snug fit as it should be. The tapered end of the ball-joint would easily spin/rotate in the steering upright taper when the nut on the bottom of the ball-joint was turned. The taper on these Uniball joints is built in, not a sleeve/adapter like the pictures shown earlier of the Total Chaos fittings. I didn’t have a camera to document the All Pro taper before they were ground off, but there was clearly not enough length nor proper engagement in the steering arm.
The fix was to cut off the tapered extension on the bottom of the All-Pro Uniball, replace the bent bolts with new Grade-8 9/16” bolts, and have custom tapered sleeve adapters machined to correctly fit the inside of the 4Runner’s steering knuckle.
These are pics of the new, machined, tapered adapters I had made:
Tapered sleeve on the ball-joint bolt:
I was not happy that these modifications were needed. With the modified Uniballs and custom taper/sleeves installed the car drove better, and the steering looseness the car had developed was gone. This fix may have been permanent, but I had a hard time continuing to use a product that ‘was not right’ and that was not supported to my satisfaction.
Light Racing/SPC Upper A-arms w/stock type ball-joint
With the promise of the correct taper for the 4Runner’s steering knuckle (different part numbers for 4Runner/FJC & Tacomas), quiet & smooth operation with equal travel to that of a Uniball, and stock-type longevity, I decided to buy a pair of the recently released Light Racing/Specialty Products upper A-Arms.
I had a mechanic install the Light Racing arms for me, but I was there and assisted and together we decided what position to clock the ball joints for additional caster. It should be noted that Light Racing’s instructions are vague and they need both better pictures and some text to explain how they should be set-up. One of my thoughts choosing the All-Pro Uniball arms over a more adjustable A-Arm like the Icons (in addition to cost!) was that alignment would be easier for most shops to perform. I was correct. After the All-Pro Arms were installed, it was very easy for anyone with an alignment rack to align the 4Runner using the stock adjusters.
In the case of the super adjustability of the Light Racing ball joints, not only was the alignment all screwed-up after installing the A-arms, the first kid that tried to do an alignment couldn’t do it with where we had the ball joints clocked. He tried moving them to a different position but he made it worse. The next day a different guy at the same shop (manager) moved the ball joints and did an alignment that was ‘within spec’. Though within alignment specifications, it was later clear that the set-up was “not right”.
One obvious issue was that this shop thought that the small ‘SPC’ markings on the ball joints needed to face outward, “because all product names always face out”. This was even after I had called SPC and confirmed that the SPC letters would not always face outward, the lettering may face inward or to the rear depending on how the ball joints are clocked. They wouldn’t listen and adjusted them the way they thought they should be. They had a copy of the (poor) instructions but I’m not sure they did much more than look at the few pictures.
After aligning the Light Racing (LPC) arms and doing some light 4-wheeling, I started experiencing some tire rubbing at the rear of the left-front fender that I didn’t have before with the All-Pro A-arms. This may have been because I now had 3.5 - 3.7 degrees of caster, pushing the tires further to the rear than when I was running closer to 2.5 - 2.7 with the All-Pros. Maybe the front springs have relaxed (I don't think so), or I just needed to extend my front bump-stops a bit which I hadn’t done yet.
The Light Racing A-Arms were now set-up okay, and the alignment was within spec per the alignment computer, but my butt meter and some critical thinking told me something wasn't exactly right.
After the recommendation from two friends, both with Land Cruisers, I tried a new alignment shop. This shop can align large RVs (uncommon) and also does custom alignments on lowered, raised, and race vehicles. They are very good. About two weeks ago I explained the issues and they listened. Before making any changes my New Alignment Master ‘Mike’ found that the upper ball joint nut (for adjusting camber) took less than 100-lb-ft to loosen, though it should have been set at 120-lb-ft. Mike first zeroed the stock adjusters, then changed the clock of the ball joints to a better, more neutral position for the amount of lift I have, then did an alignment. This guy is good, exacting and a friendly, pleasant guy. The car drove better than ever and as good as stock. I was very happy - until my first off-highway trip where there was a problem.
To be continued...
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