Using Sikaflex 252

Iain_U1250

Explorer
Just wondering if anyone has any tips on using SIkaflex 252?

I'm just about to start on the cladding of my Unimog Camper - and will be using the 252 to stick the aluminium to the steel frame. I will be using a 2mm rubber every 100mm-200mm or so as a spacer to ensure I have at least a 2mm gap, mainly to ensure no steel - aluminium contact, but also to take out any low or high points.

This is the first time doing something like this and I would love to hear any advice from people who have done this before. Things like how to hold the sheets in place, keeping them straight etc.

Attached is a few photos from earlier on in the process - I have completed the frame now with all the supports for the cladding.
 

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ntsqd

Heretic Car Camper
I think that some of the versions will, but I'd advise checking available grip lengths. They will pull the panel towards the frame with a fair amount of force, so the spacers will need to be of a firm material. Hard rubber is likely OK, but soft rubber will be distorted.

In case it didn't reveal itself, cleco's are probably most common in experimental or home-built light aircraft, but they are also used extensively in race car fabrication. Hopefully that info will help you locate a source just a *bit* closer to you.
 

Iain_U1250

Explorer
Thanks NTSQD - I can get 20 3.2mm or 4.8mm Clecos for around $50 delivered. I have 2mm sheeting, and the main frame is 2mm steep - add to that the 2mm rubber and I need it to have at least 6mm of grip. From the search I've done it seems that the can grip up to 1/4" so that's 6mm.

I will use them in conjunction with the 2mm rubber spacer ( 25mm wide x 40mm long) How many and what size will I heed to hand a 1.2x2.4m panel on the vertical sides?
 

nick disjunkt

Adventurer
First off, great choice of adhesive. With the correct preparation I think 252 is astonishingly strong.

The 252 has a really high grab almost instantly and so in my experience you really only need to support the sheets vertically to stop them sliding downwards. The clamps exert an unnecessary amount of force clamping the sheet to the frame and if they're not located directly over your 2mm spacers you may find that the sheet bows too much and reduces the 2mm of sikaflex to nothing.

In the past I have welded temporary lugs under each sheet to support it while the sikaflex dries. You can then snap them off and clean them after the stuff has cured enough to take its own weight. If you don't fancy welding the lugs you could screw a couple of self tappers under each sheet?

I don't know what preparation you plan on doing but I have found that the sikaflex primers (I use 205 or 210 depending on the material) make a massive amount of difference to the final strength. You will probably be fine without them but if you don't mind going the extra mile then its worth the small aditional cost and time. It is worth remebering though that the final strength is only as good as the substrates you are joining. If you are gluing bare ally sheet to painted steel you need to make sure you have a good bond between the paint and the steel or that will be the weekest point. If you degreased and keyed the steel first and used a decent paint you'll be fine.

Finally if you don't have an air powered mastic gun I thoroughly recomend heating the tubes slightly before using them. I put them on a low heat in the oven for 10 minutes and it works fine. The 252 is particularly viscous and after a tube or two you will have cramp in your hand and will have blisters forming. After a few squirts you will wonder what I'm talking about but after 2 tubes you'll undertand. I don't know what the ambient temperature is like where you are but in the UK it rarely gets hot enough to make the stuff come out as easy as it can do.

Good luck.

Nick
 

westyss

Explorer
252

I concur with heating it up, or warming it up. Also it doesnt have much play time so you have to get it on there fairly quickly, thats where using the sausages and a proper applicator (gun) would come in handy. I just used a standard cartridge and caulk gun and went like hell. Get it positioned in the right spot cause there isnt much time to move it if any. Use latex gloves , this stuff will stay on your skin a while. The cartridges come with a sloted nozzle that allows a vee notch and an adjustable amount of 252 for a base so using a spacer may not be necassary. I didnt use one and it takes alot of pressure to squeeze the material onto the supports, so the gap between surfaces remains the same as what you cut your nozzle size to. Hmmm , not sure if this makes sense. I could explain it better later.
however much you think you need, get double. I used over double what I planned.
Yves
 

KTM500

New member
A quick comment on the strength of Sikaflex; I used black Sikaflex to join half of a CR500 carb boot to a KTM rubber air box housing boot. The intake has been in this configuration for 2 years now and has not shown any signs of rupturing or breakdown of any kind. Recall that the CR500 motor is an open class 500cc 2 stroke motor that vibrates more than most. The Sikaflex has held up in spite of this. Awesome stuff!
 

ntsqd

Heretic Car Camper
The clamping force of the Cleco's is fairly high. There is a real need for the pliers. A single Cleco through two panels will allow them to spin relative to each other, but they won't free-spin by any means.

Not knowing how viscous the 252 is (how well it will wet-flow) I don't know if they will tend to squeeze it out or not. I was envisioning that what ever rubber spacers were used, that they would be positioned directly under the Cleco's.

Making a large WAG I'll say that your panels weigh about 20.4kg each. Sound about right?
2, maybe 3 Clecos would be all that I'd think should be necessary to hold it up. Uniform clamping or driving down the road would be a different gig all together.
 

Iain_U1250

Explorer
Thanks for the input guys.

Great tip on not using a mnaul gun - I've ordered a pneumatic caulking gun from Sika - surprisingly the cheapest of all the suppliers and as it is their "official" gun - it should work.

Thanks for the info on the Cleco's, I've ordered 4.8mm ones x 20 with the pliers - the panels weigh in at 12.8kg each - so two or three Clecos should hold it up. I will start with cladding the roof - so if I screw it up very few people can see :) I'll try clamping and the Cleco's - see what works best.

I'm using the primer and the cleaner. Got the whole procedure from Sika and will be following it as best I can - don't want my roof or walls falling off :)

I'll post some progress photos.
 

JRhetts

Adventurer
I can't contribute anything re: clecos and your clamping questions, but i have used Sikaflex 252 extensively for cabinets and other gluing both inside and external.

It's a great adhesive as long and you don't want to be able to remove things glued with it non-destructively. It really holds! Only exception is re: UV exposure. It does degrade fairly quickly. Other products are better in that situation.
 

ersatzknarf

lost, but making time
Hi John,
How about some photos as I am sure folks would like very much to see what your new set-up looks like ? <hint ! hint !> :D
 

Iain_U1250

Explorer
Started on the roof this weekend - and it is a lot more difficult than I thought.
First thing I had to do was to strip off the blue paint on the steel - and for a paint that is supposed to be "temporary to protect the steel during storage" it was very difficult to get off. Anyway, after a full day of stripping the frame got it's epoxy etch primer sprayed on - at least the top half of the frame did - I still have a few mods on the lower part of the frame at the back I want to do so I deferred some of the stripping on the lower half of the frame.

I had to leave the etch primer for 16 hours before I could start to put the Sikaflex system on so I went to the beach on Sunday :sombrero:

Yesterday - being a public holiday here in Queensland I started with the first of the roof sheets. I had two of the sheets bent to the correct shape by the sheet metal shop last week. The test fit seemed to work good so I started the process. First I marked up the areas of the frame on the sheet using a marking pen. Then I sanded and cleaned the frame with the Sika cleaner - then applied the Sika 106 G+P primer (wear a proper carbon filter mask - that stuff will make you head spin). Then I did the same to the aluminium sheeting. Finally I cut up the rubber spacers and stuck them onto the frame.

With everything ready , I started to apply the Sikaflex - the pneumatic gun is great - pull the trigger and half a second later the glue comes out, let go and an it stops instantly - the rate of flow is constant - so all I had to do was keep the travel speed constant and I got a nice constant bead. It was all going well at that stage.

Next I had to lift the sheet on - and that's where things got difficult. Trying to lift on a 2.4x1.2 sheet, get it to line up without getting the glue all over the place was very difficult by yourself. I tried to tilt it up and lower it down but ended up slight skew - and the Sikaflex grabs tightly. I spent the next 15 minutes clamping, levering, pulling and pushing to get the panel lined up straight - then having to clamp and hold the sheet in place - to keep the gap constant. In the end - I got it in place- but the was a few areas where the glue got pushed out over the edge of the support in my efforts. Maybe I put to much on, but in the end the sheet was a lot more difficult to move once it had it's initial grab than I though it would be - added to the fact that the folded sheet was a tight fit in the first place.

I have a fair bit of clean-up to do on the inside - but the sheet is on, at least within 1-2mm of being perfectly straight and all in all I was happy with the result. After 5-6 hours I release the clamps on the rear edge and trial fitted the next sheet - and that's where I discovered that somewhere, somehow I must be 15-20mm out.

When I lined up the next sheet - things would not line up - it I line up the folds - the the edges are 15mm out, if I line up the edges, the folder are 20mm out. The only was I could get both the folds and the edges to line up was to skew the sheet slightly - I clamped the one edge so it butted up against the first sheet - the skewed it across so that the folds line up and the edges line up - and then it works - but that means I have to trim off a thin wedge. This does not make sense at all to me - I spend about an hour measuring, running string lines etc and even call in a friend to help. The bottom line is something is skew - not sure what or how, but it seems like in my welding in all the bracing has pulled the frame skew somewhere and the only way to fix it is to trim the sheet.

Late last night I transferred the marking across and with a 1mm blade on the angle grinder, trimmed the sheet. Now it lines up - but the supports on the frame don't - so I cut them off and re-welded them in the right position. After wire brushing back I re-applied the epoxy primer and that's where I left it. I'll have another look tonight and see how things are.

I took a whole load of photos - but did not down load them form the camera - I'll do that this evening and add to the post.

For the next sheet I want to try a different method. My plan is to stick the rubber spacers on like before, but then lay the sheet on, clamp it in place, and with the glue gun, squeeze the Sikaflex into the gap. What do you think about that idea?
 

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Peter_n_Margaret

Adventurer
Forget the rubber spacers.........

Instead of the rubber spacers, use small squares of 2mm thick double sided foam tape.
This will hold the sheet in place and maintain the glue joint thickness all at the same time..........easy.

Cheers,
Peter
 

sammyb

New member
Id say stick with the way you are going, just get a couple of mates around or put the kids and the wife to good use in placing panels. I don't think you will get the sika in the gaps sufficently to be confident in the bond.

Just my idea

sam
 

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