Vacuum Insulated Composite Panels
- Thread starter DzlToy
- Start date
DirtWhiskey
Western Dirt Rat
Have to disagree with such blanket statements, no intention to flame. Small wood stoves have been used in tight confines with relative safety for hundreds of years. Out west, you'd be hard pressed to find a sheep camp without one. Boats? Small cabins? It could easily be argued that propane and diesel systems are just as dangerous, if not worse. No need to transport flammable compressed gas, leaks, spills, mechanical failures etc. Also, efficiency isn't a real concern. Plenty of available wood. Frankly I'm surprised more expedition vehicles don't use one nowadays.
Enclosed stoves, yes. Open-hearth fireplaces, no. And I'm talking about the ones made to look like a brick fireplace to get the old-cabin feel. NOT PRACTICAL.
Propane and diesel CAN be dangerous when not PROPERLY VENTILATED, but that is a result of poor installation practice, not design. Anything made for an enclosed mobile vehicle should always be properly aspirated AND ventilated, meaning external feed air AND externally exhausted. The "fireplace" in its most common configuration does NOT qualify under those parameters. Keep open-hearth fireplaces in the old log cabins.
Gait is 100% right on this one; read his last paragraph above again and let it sink in.
Propane and diesel CAN be dangerous when not PROPERLY VENTILATED, but that is a result of poor installation practice, not design. Anything made for an enclosed mobile vehicle should always be properly aspirated AND ventilated, meaning external feed air AND externally exhausted. The "fireplace" in its most common configuration does NOT qualify under those parameters. Keep open-hearth fireplaces in the old log cabins.
Gait is 100% right on this one; read his last paragraph above again and let it sink in.
gait
Explorer
to be specific, here's why I posted ... no great drama, no judgement, individual choice and all that - just a gentle reminder that open flames require ventilation. Open flame + inadequate ventilation = death. Some countries have a better understanding of adequate and are more used to providing ventilation. The catalytic heater caught my attention more than the fireplace. Fireplaces typically have flues so there's more chance fresh air will be drawn in from somewhere.
apologies if I took it all too literally ... for a bit I wondered if it was tongue in cheek.
But just in case - hre's a random link to catalytic heaters with a bit about carbon monoxide when there's insufficient combustion air.
http://sierranevadaairstreams.org/owners-guide/living/catalyticheaters.html
As I said my outlook is coloured by my (unfortunate in this case) experiences.
apologies if I took it all too literally ... for a bit I wondered if it was tongue in cheek.
But just in case - hre's a random link to catalytic heaters with a bit about carbon monoxide when there's insufficient combustion air.
http://sierranevadaairstreams.org/owners-guide/living/catalyticheaters.html
As I said my outlook is coloured by my (unfortunate in this case) experiences.
As it is with me; heard of too many incidents of asphyxiation due to improper ventilation &/or installation, or plain misuse.
Forgive me if I came off a bit harsh, but these things are critical, to say the least.
I concur!
I have my eye on a Kimberly Stove, but I'm having trouble paying the $3995.00 price tag.
Kimberly Stove in Alaska.
ersatzknarf
lost, but making time
DirtWhiskey
Western Dirt Rat
Not to drag an excellent thread any further off topic but this little guy catches my eye: http://salamanderstoves.com/the-hobbit-stove/
Secondary burn, glass viewing door and water heating coils available. Can be had for $600-700
To address the CO issues with a small, well sealed and insulated space, there will be a CO and/or CO2 monitor in place, as well as a small fresh air intake, likely hidden in a cabinet or under body storage box, under a bed, etc., so it does not compromise sound or heat insulation. Additionally, with a small space, you are likey not confined there for long (meals are prepared and eaten outside, etc) So it's more for sleeping and foul weather IMO, than to cocoon oneself in a 12 foot superinsulated box on the back of an FG and not come outside or open the door/window.
The $600 Dickinson Marine "twig stove" linked on the page above, is exactly the mini fireplace to which I referred. It would have no trouble heating a small well insulated space and if you were concerned about too much heat going up the chimney, you could always run the piping Russian style with a bit of extra work.
The $600 Dickinson Marine "twig stove" linked on the page above, is exactly the mini fireplace to which I referred. It would have no trouble heating a small well insulated space and if you were concerned about too much heat going up the chimney, you could always run the piping Russian style with a bit of extra work.
ersatzknarf
lost, but making time
1aquaholic
Adventurer
So I'm probably over thinking this but it looks to me that R value in windows is very low, double pane around 2, and I want a lot of window area in my build so there isn't much point in paying more for a potentially weaker material in the walls to up the R value to 8. I'm back to thinking just a strait honeycomb wall with good heating and maybe A/C. Anyone have thoughts on this? Thanks
j
j
mhiscox
Expedition Leader
My thought is that you're probably right for the Northwest climate. We need big windows because we're stuck in the cabin better than half the year, and the temperature extremes are not that great. I'd think differently if I was making a truck for the Southwest deserts, but in the Northwest, big window area trumps energy efficiency, in my humble opinion.
(FWIW, because our need for air conditioning is very occasional--maybe necessary for only two or three trips a year--I've gone to using portable AC units. Not the most elegant solution, but quieter than a rooftop unit and you eliminate 100 pounds of weight and drag high up on your roof. And the best part is that you leave it out of the truck for the forty weeks of the year you don't need it.)
gait
Explorer
heat loss calculator may be useful for "sensitivity analysis"
http://www.chromalox.com/resource-center/calculators/comfort-heater.aspx
sorry, its non-metric!
Not sure what sort of strength you are looking for in the walls. The sandwich panels get their strength from the skins, the sandwich material just keeps the skins apart. My bed base is same 23mm fibreglass pu foam as walls, supported only at edges. Double bed, two people. Inner sprung mattress. Still flat after a few years constant use. I have a hole in one wall where vehicle came together with a steel post and ripped the outer skin and foam. The floor needed extra skin thickness so foam didn't compress due to walking on it. Diy shower floor contouring used higher density foam under fibreglass. And so on.
http://www.chromalox.com/resource-center/calculators/comfort-heater.aspx
sorry, its non-metric!
Not sure what sort of strength you are looking for in the walls. The sandwich panels get their strength from the skins, the sandwich material just keeps the skins apart. My bed base is same 23mm fibreglass pu foam as walls, supported only at edges. Double bed, two people. Inner sprung mattress. Still flat after a few years constant use. I have a hole in one wall where vehicle came together with a steel post and ripped the outer skin and foam. The floor needed extra skin thickness so foam didn't compress due to walking on it. Diy shower floor contouring used higher density foam under fibreglass. And so on.
You can let the window size and placement drive the internal design or you can let the internal design drive the size and the placement of the windows.
A strait honeycomb wall sounds great. How do you plan to attach four sides, a roof and a floor together?
This Blog might give you some insight as to what's involved. Just click on 'Newer Post' to follow the build process. SuperCamper
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LeishaShannon
Adventurer
You can see the thermal bridge effect here. Outside is ~23c , the inside of the camper is ~27c (no windows open), and the aluminium window frame that clamps around the window cutout conducts the heat from the sun straight into the camper heating the inside frame to 39c. It doesn't help that the frame is black!