Van camping in -40
- Thread starter Photomike
- Start date
Drizzt
Free Sarcasm Available
I don't recall ever hearing about anybody having this issue. What kind of temps are you talking about here? What's "extreme cold" in this context where you started having issues? I'm looking at the diesel espar for my build, but certainly don't see myself in -40 weather often if at all if I can help it...
Photomike
White Turtle Adventures & Photography
So I have the Espar scheduled for install this week. Went with the B2 and I am paying to get it installed for many reasons (weather, skills, my health). Decided on the gas as it makes sense for me as the van is gas. One thing that I am REALLY happy with on the Transit that I have is how warm it stays while driving with just the front heater. I do not have it any where's close to being done but it seems like when it warms up it holds the heat so I am hoping that the Espar is going to take care of things during the night or even during the day while I am stopped to do some shooting.
broncobowsher
Adventurer
Heating batteries does wonders. Back in college we had a nasty cold front blow in. Truck started but stalled when I let the clutch out, thick gear oil. Would not start again. Went from a slow crank to no crank. Pulled the battery, brought it inside, into a sink of hot water. An hour later back in the truck and started right up. Eased the clutch out this time. Warm batteries do great. I guess that is why they do battery heaters when you live in really cold places.
Photomike
White Turtle Adventures & Photography
You hit that on the head!!! On the Transit I have both van batteries inside (smart idea IMHO) and the coach battery (ies) will also be inside. On my Dodge Journey the battery is mounted below the engine in the wheel well - STUPID idea as it never gets warmth from the engine!
java
Expedition Leader
I have been to -20F, too cold to want to be outside....
I built our current truck with cold in mind, running a Airtop 3500 (too big...) house batteries are inside, water tank is inside, all water lines are inside. No water to toilet (flush with antifreeze). Starting batteries have blankets, but that's it. I hope they do ok.... I can jump from house batteries if needed. Block heater if there are hookups (rarely). Its 1.75" spray foam in the walls, 3.75" in the ceiling, none in the floor yet.... I run Jet A in my diesel heater, no gelling issues, and cleaner than diesel.
I built our current truck with cold in mind, running a Airtop 3500 (too big...) house batteries are inside, water tank is inside, all water lines are inside. No water to toilet (flush with antifreeze). Starting batteries have blankets, but that's it. I hope they do ok.... I can jump from house batteries if needed. Block heater if there are hookups (rarely). Its 1.75" spray foam in the walls, 3.75" in the ceiling, none in the floor yet.... I run Jet A in my diesel heater, no gelling issues, and cleaner than diesel.
Photomike
White Turtle Adventures & Photography
The older I get the less I enjoy the cold weather
but it is sure nice to come back to a warm unit when I have been out shooting. Sounds like you have thought the cold thing over as well. I have a cassette toilet so not lines to or from and on board water will be all under the sink.watch for ice in the cab!
I have a box van with 3-4" foam insulation including the floor, and an espar diesel hydronic that can heat the floor or engine. Use it frequently for ski trips and it does great in the cold although I haven't been below -20F. Sounds like you are on track to a great setup! Only thing I have to add is to re-emphasize what others have said about ice in the cab. The solution seems to be good insulation with a vapor barrier behind the seats. I use a down comforter draped over a curtain rod and a sheet of plastic but will eventually upgrade to something custom sewn. Also have issues with condensation around a marine escape hatch that has a metal frame, and some condensation where there is not enough insulation around a double-pane skylight. Will eventually make a foam plug for the escape hatch and do better insulation around the skylight. Pleasantly surprised at how well the skylight does - it's a residential unit (with tempered glass) and I don't get ice on the inside of the glass even sleeping directly below it. I carry a mr. buddy propane heater as backup. Your airtop should provide all the heat you'll need, but if it's anything like my hydronic it does use some juice (5-10A) so make sure you have enough battery capacity. Another option to consider for really cold days would be a collapsible wood stove. They make some that weigh under 3 pounds and fold flat. You could rig a removable stove jack into a window or a skylight. There are several manufacturers e.g. titaniumgoat.com.
I have a box van with 3-4" foam insulation including the floor, and an espar diesel hydronic that can heat the floor or engine. Use it frequently for ski trips and it does great in the cold although I haven't been below -20F. Sounds like you are on track to a great setup! Only thing I have to add is to re-emphasize what others have said about ice in the cab. The solution seems to be good insulation with a vapor barrier behind the seats. I use a down comforter draped over a curtain rod and a sheet of plastic but will eventually upgrade to something custom sewn. Also have issues with condensation around a marine escape hatch that has a metal frame, and some condensation where there is not enough insulation around a double-pane skylight. Will eventually make a foam plug for the escape hatch and do better insulation around the skylight. Pleasantly surprised at how well the skylight does - it's a residential unit (with tempered glass) and I don't get ice on the inside of the glass even sleeping directly below it. I carry a mr. buddy propane heater as backup. Your airtop should provide all the heat you'll need, but if it's anything like my hydronic it does use some juice (5-10A) so make sure you have enough battery capacity. Another option to consider for really cold days would be a collapsible wood stove. They make some that weigh under 3 pounds and fold flat. You could rig a removable stove jack into a window or a skylight. There are several manufacturers e.g. titaniumgoat.com.
Photomike
White Turtle Adventures & Photography
UPDATE
B2 installed
First thoughts (and these are only from a couple minutes with it running)
Noise - not bad inside but I do need to put on a muffler as outside it is loud so I am assuming there is no muffler on it, I would have looked but we are having a snow storm so did not want to try to get under to see. Compared to a standard RV furnace a little quieter than the three that I have had. It still has the moving wind noise but not the wind noise mixed with a rattly metal noise of the RV furnaces, a night in the camper will tell that for sure. I put it so it is under the kitchen counter and I am happy that I did so far as I can build a cupboard around it. and that should cut down the noise as well.
Size - Cannot believe how small the unit is. Opens up a lot of options if I ever do another build
Cost - HORRIBLE!! With that being said I know I could have saved a lot doing it myself but as it was the first time and I have never seen one before so thought I would let the experts do it. I had prices for a RV furnace and a propane tank without the install and it would have been over half of what the Espar was and that was without the extras like mounting brackets, gas line, etc. The best part for me is that it uses the vehicle fuel (gas) so no extra refueling and it is mounted inside the van with only the vents below so I keep any ground clearance.
Now I need it to stop snowing so I can take the van out!
B2 installed
First thoughts (and these are only from a couple minutes with it running)
Noise - not bad inside but I do need to put on a muffler as outside it is loud so I am assuming there is no muffler on it, I would have looked but we are having a snow storm so did not want to try to get under to see. Compared to a standard RV furnace a little quieter than the three that I have had. It still has the moving wind noise but not the wind noise mixed with a rattly metal noise of the RV furnaces, a night in the camper will tell that for sure. I put it so it is under the kitchen counter and I am happy that I did so far as I can build a cupboard around it. and that should cut down the noise as well.
Size - Cannot believe how small the unit is. Opens up a lot of options if I ever do another build
Cost - HORRIBLE!! With that being said I know I could have saved a lot doing it myself but as it was the first time and I have never seen one before so thought I would let the experts do it. I had prices for a RV furnace and a propane tank without the install and it would have been over half of what the Espar was and that was without the extras like mounting brackets, gas line, etc. The best part for me is that it uses the vehicle fuel (gas) so no extra refueling and it is mounted inside the van with only the vents below so I keep any ground clearance.
Now I need it to stop snowing so I can take the van out!
Herbie
Rendezvous Conspirator
The muffler is definitely an optional and separate piece, both on the B2 and D2 models. Often it comes as part of a "kit", but there's definitely a separate P/N for it. Yes, it makes a huge difference, as otherwise you just have a straight pipe coming off of what is essentially a small jet turbine.
Photomike
White Turtle Adventures & Photography
I told them to make sure that the fuel pump is isolated from the frame and so far can only hear it when I am outside the vehicle, but like i say I have not slept in it yet.
Photomike
White Turtle Adventures & Photography
So with winter slllloooowwwwwwllllyyyy leaving us I thought that I would add some information to what I have learned.
First I have not yet spent a night sleeping in the van, between the insane weather and my health I did not want to risk it without having everything done. The heater is still hooked up to the van starting batteries so having the heater run a lot during the night is not good either, this will be changed once I can get out in warmer weather and add some house batteries.
What I have learned so far is that without all the windows that were in my class C and my truck camper the van sure holds the heat. I did not get all the insulating done but with what is done I am VERY happy with it. No drafts to cool off the van, at least in the back. The heater is REALLY powerful, compared to a RV furnace I would say it is twice as hot and about the same amount of air flow. Only issue is that I want to add a heater outlet to the back of the van or at least under the bed to remove the cold back part, I think I can do this easily but again I will have to wait till warmer weather to see.
The front of the van, my weak spot! I will be using a curtain behind the seats to isolate the front from the back as there are some drafts up front. I am not expecting to be able to fix them all and even if I did with the huge front window it would still be the weak spot.
So am I happy with the set-up so far? Yes 150%!!! Would I take it out in -40 in the future for a night or two? Once I get some more updates done without a worry.
First I have not yet spent a night sleeping in the van, between the insane weather and my health I did not want to risk it without having everything done. The heater is still hooked up to the van starting batteries so having the heater run a lot during the night is not good either, this will be changed once I can get out in warmer weather and add some house batteries.
What I have learned so far is that without all the windows that were in my class C and my truck camper the van sure holds the heat. I did not get all the insulating done but with what is done I am VERY happy with it. No drafts to cool off the van, at least in the back. The heater is REALLY powerful, compared to a RV furnace I would say it is twice as hot and about the same amount of air flow. Only issue is that I want to add a heater outlet to the back of the van or at least under the bed to remove the cold back part, I think I can do this easily but again I will have to wait till warmer weather to see.
The front of the van, my weak spot! I will be using a curtain behind the seats to isolate the front from the back as there are some drafts up front. I am not expecting to be able to fix them all and even if I did with the huge front window it would still be the weak spot.
So am I happy with the set-up so far? Yes 150%!!! Would I take it out in -40 in the future for a night or two? Once I get some more updates done without a worry.