Van camping in -40

[Photomike]

Okay I think I have researched everything but thought I would toss this out there just in case I missed something.

Anyone done any conversions for extreme cold? Looking for a all season vehicle and part of the seasons is the crazy cold. I have camped in my truck camper in the extreme weather but do to health issues I switched to a Class C but find it too large for what I need. I want a van for daily driving, storm chasing & photography that I can also spend the night in if I have to, in the spring, summer and fall not a big deal to add some blankets but in the real cold I need heat.

I am thinking of a vented catalytic heater for heat but wondering about insulation and air leakage in either a Roadtrek/ Pleasureway that I modify, or a new build of a Transit or Promaster.

Any threads to refer me to or your experiences.

Thanks,

 

[canuck 1]

Build your own, spray foam and a good heater make them usable. At -40 you don't shut the rig off anyways....

 

[Timjim]

Does Propane even work at -40?? How about a diesel fired heater?? Gas fired should work right?? But that is serious cold.

 

[k9lestat]

all i can add to this topic is while in the army when the temperatures were -20 to 30 we work go to the motorpool every 3 hours and idle all the vehicles for two hours and repeat. idling the vehicle does burn through fuel especially when youre using a heater that runs off your fuel supply. depending on whether your vehicle is gas or diesel would depend on the heater to use. being in a tent and or a humvee in the field the extreme cold weather sleeping bag was the biggest benefit. but in a self built vehicle a carbon-monoxide detector is a must. also having something to insulate the windows is highly important because of heat loss. also as far as heat goes you could look at these wood stoves in addition to the fuel heater. in that extreme cold a good secondary heat source is important. as far as insulating the van, my choice would be to spray foam the voids in the panels and sheet foam board over the interior walls under the siding you decide to use. just my 2 cent.

 

[Photomike]

Thanks everyone for the ideas, keep them coming.

Vehicles do not have an issue with the cold if kept well maintained. I have never parked my vehicles inside so -20, -30, -40 is a daily thing some years around here (hopefully not his year :bike_rider: ) Plugging vehicles in is a good idea in the cold but if not like mentioned above you start them every few hours and let them warm up.

Than you for the reminder on the propane, on my truck camper the propane was inside a storage compartment and I never had an issue with the cold and the propane. I have not done as much testing on the tanks hanging below a unit so I will have to test that out.

Yes I use CO, gas and smoke alarms - so far the only time one has ever gone off is when I make toast.

As for the back-up ideas I currently run in the RV the propane furnace, A 110v electric heater for when I do have a plug in and a portable catalytic heater with the small propane bottles and would do the same in the van. I have looked at the powerless pellet stove idea and like it but really not sure how to run the vent on a vehicle that is moving most of the time and $3000 is a lot to try it to see if it works.

As for the insulation it does seem like foam is the best idea or foam with sheets. I just wonder how much cold will still get in around doors and windows or leach in at the reinforcements. (FYI I will use a panel van if I do the Promaster or Transit to cut down on windows).

Thanks again and keep the ideas coming.

 

[Timjim]

Well known heaters for use in vans are the Espar Airtronic or the Webasto Air top. They come in different sizes (BTU) and obviously have different outputs, fuel consumptions, and electrical consumptions. Espar has their Diesel D2 and D4 and they also make the gas versions of B1LC and B4 etc. I opted for a B4 as it was only a couple bucks more for the larger unit. They are small but powerful and should heat your van pretty well.

Definitely think about the insulation on your floor that is something I didn't do to the degree that I did my walls and sometimes think I should have added an inch or so of rigid insulation. But I am not heading down to those kind of temps. Definitely need some removable panels for any windows. Footwells cause big drafts as well.

 

[Photomike]

Forgot to mention that I am leaning towards gas over diesel for a number of reasons, not just the cold weather side of things.

 

[Herbie]

The other issue for extreme cold is all the ancillary RV "bits". Will you have any water or toilet system? If so, all that stuff (and I mean *all*) has to be inside the heated envelope. Otherwise, you'll definitely freeze pipes, etc.

Visit the Sportsmobile forum for some good examples. Lots of SMB owners have had to go through a retrofit program to relocate and re-run plumbing elements because they want to be able to snow camp (not even as cold as you're talking about) but they keep breaking pipes, etc. when the water freezes. Stuff like drain valves, etc. will normally be outside the van, but once the pipe breaks upstream of the valve, then the whole water system fails.

Batteries are a maybe/maybe not issue. A good starter battery will probably be ok outside, but your house batteries will definitely suffer efficiency-wise if they're frozen - so that's another thing that might need to be inside the heated space.

 

[Photomike]

Herbie you have hit the nail on the head and what has been causing me to rethink this most.

If I go with a Roadtrek/ Pleasureway I have a unit that is designed for the best possible weather and maybe a day or two of cool weather and that is it. So all the plumbing would be exposed and I would either have to use RV antifreeze to flush the toilet and give up on the sinks or a MAJOR renovation would be required, plus add to that the insulation of the unit is poor if it exists at all.

If I built myself then I could use a cassette toilet and a couple water jugs (one for waste and one for fresh under the sink) and I am done and all the plumbing is inside.

A battery actually holds the charge well in the cold as long as it is not pushing a RV furnace, that kills them really fast. For just some LED lights and maybe a water pump a night with a group 31 or a couple 6V is not a big deal. I will not be in one place long as this is more for driving then camping so they will recharge daily.

The other issue between the two is that doing a build myself is a pain and maybe more than my health can handle. But when I got quotes either they were crazy expensive or scary low. Hard to explain to someone that I don't want X,Y,Z when they are set on that and only that and harder yet to tell someone that works on fair weather RV's that I camp in -40 and yes insulation is needed. That is the benefit of taking a already made Class B and modifying it, I have the basics and can tweak as I have the energy / willpower to do. I bought the Class C a year ago as last time I got so frustrated with trying to sort this part out that it was easier to get the class C and make due - which I am doing in comfort in nice weather :sombrero::sombrero::sombrero:

 

[dcp]

Here in Whitehorse there are a few year-round van dwellers. The coolest setup that I have seen is a high top camper van that was completely gutted and spray foamed with 2lb high density foam on the walls with a small woodstove installed roughly in the middle. It was common to see it driving down the road with smoke coming out of the chimmney. I asked the owner about it once and he mentioned that the next plan was to foam the undercarriage. Don't know if this happened and I haven't seen the rig around for a year or so. Sadly I didn't get any pics.

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[rontaki]

What about the Winnebago Revel? (Other than not having a pile of spare money...)

They seem to have built at least some ability to do cold-weather camping in it. It has a diesel-powered hydronic heater in it, dual-pane windows, insulated and heated tanks and probably more.

Dang - I just talked myself into buying one. First I've got to convince my wife to sell the house...

 

[Photomike]

I would LOVE a wood stove or one of the non electric pellet stoves but I plan on using this as a work vehicle and I am afraid that a wood stove with the chimney sticking out the top would be a little red neck looking for my customers. Not something that would bother me but I think others would be questioning my sanity...... more then they are now :sombrero::bike_rider::elkgrin::ylsmoke::Wow1: . Also as I plan on this as being a mainly travel vehicle the stove may not get used as much as it should as I would always be moving or getting ready to move.

Winnebago Revel - it is search time........ Nice looking unit but I would like to keep a little lower in price. If the price I saw was US dollars it would be $160,000+ before I got one and many of the cool US units cannot come into Canada, that is the issue with newer Chinooks. Some cool ideas I will see what I can learn from them.

 

[calicamper]

The small wall mount marine stoves dont take up much space and I think the wood burners do fine with pellets. But do more research to confirm. Its not hard to hide a chimney behind a roof rack. Given the temps your talking about I think your crazy - not to have a 100% reliable wood burner.

The marine diesel stoves are super simple and Artic tested, thats another option which is not high tech or electric.

The forespar forced air diesel heaters are pretty dang good but Im not sure I’d rely on one as my sole source of anti freeze in my sleep method. The artic expedition sailors all use the super basic very reliable and efficient diesel stoves.

As for the vehicle vs cold all vehicles face major usability issues if left for an extended time outside in -25 and colder temps. The plugin block heater is kinda a big deal for a reason.

Im curious to see what you end up doing given your messing with some serious cold challenges.

 

[Bbasso]

I'm a firm believer in my Espar D4, I've been cold (teens) and completely comfortable (Tshirt and boxers), But my van is decently insulated... not sure about -40 tho.
Would the diesel gell up at those temps?

 

[Photomike]

I'm a firm believer in my Espar D4, I've been cold (teens) and completely comfortable (Tshirt and boxers), But my van is decently insulated... not sure about -40 tho.
Would the diesel gell up at those temps?

They have a winter diesel but I am wanting to stay with gas for other reasons.