Van front suspension thoughts

[\\'anderer]

After seeing ujointclothing's van pictures I am wondering. How difficult would it be to convert from my pathfinder conversion, coil front suspension to some good 'ol leafs. The pathfinder conversion looks ok, but seems overly complicated and limited in suspension travel. Any thoughts?

 

[Bob_Sheaves]

After seeing ujointclothing's van pictures I am wondering. How difficult would it be to convert from my pathfinder conversion, coil front suspension to some good 'ol leafs. The pathfinder conversion looks ok, but seems overly complicated and limited in suspension travel. Any thoughts?

Are you talking longitudinal leaf springs or transverse, like this:

Ignore the rest of that design-it is just for a demo.

Best regards,

Bob Sheaves
CEO
catNET Incorporated
http://www.catnetsolutions.com

 

[Grim Reaper]

Ford van?
Pictures of what you have?

Stick with the coils. It is easier to fix your wheel travel complaints then fix the problems you will create by going to leaf and trying to figure out how to get the steering to work (the leafs will be in the way of the drag link). The ride is easier to taylor with coils. I assume this has a Ford Radius arm set up. Longer arms are readily available and with the correct choice of springs you can get some respectable wheel travel out of them and still handle and ride well on the hwy.

 

[ujoint]

What year is the van? ---- I'm pretty sure Pathfinder stopped making conversions in 91 or so. I make the kit that is on my van, for the 92 & up Ford vans. It can be done, but it will have to be fabricated.

 

[ujoint]

that's a Sportsmobile conversion.

 

[\\'anderer]

My van is a 1979 Pathfinder. I will post some pics later today.

 

[ujoint]

I had a 78 Pathfinder that I converted to leafs a few years ago, so it can be done.

 

[\\'anderer]

I had a 78 Pathfinder that I converted to leafs a few years ago, so it can be done.

How was the ride after the conversion, and was it worth the trouble.
what were your reasons for converting it?

I plan on taking it on longer trips, so road manners are also a concern .



Below are some pics. The first thing I notice is the front track bars and the axle form a trapezoid, if the van goes through a dip, besides the rubber parts the suspension compression will push on the bars and push up on the crossmember.
It looks like I only get real suspension travel if only one side compresses, not both.





I have the new rubber parts to repair this

 

[Grim Reaper]

I was expecting to see an off the shelf 100 series ford axle with off the shelf radius arms and pan hard like my buddies 79 Bronco.

The pan hard set up is unique thats for sure and the big problem with wheel travel. If you could get it to a single pan-hard respectable wheel travel is no problem with a spring change. The problem is the cross-member is in the way. I suspect that cross-member is in that position to allow clearance to remove the engine. If that cross member could be changed and then switch to the Bronco style drag link and tire rod it could work.

Personally I would be tempted to modify the cross-member to keep the coils. Just having a heard time on telling how much room is between the drag link and cross member.

Something more like this on the late 70's 100's http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/Dana44.htm The steering drag link is missing off the top left picture.

If you were to use that style drag link and tie rod then go to a single pan hard/ Track bar that mounts off the frame up near the steering box that would get rid of that double track bar that is binding.

The goal is to have the drag link and the track bar roughly parallel and same length. That will limit bump steer. Other then the pan hard bar and frame mount I think the rest of the parts would be off the shelf parts off a late 70's 4x4 ford 100 series. If you want to get a lot more wheel travel then swap to longer radius arms and a bearing on the passenger side lower spring mount and it would get a LOT of flex. Take some custom fabrication on the arms but can be done.

http://www.jackit.com/manufacturer/cage/cage_ford_bronco_f150.html


The worst part about converting to leaf springs will be the steering and getting the clearance on the drag link and leaf pack. If you go spring under it would be pretty easy. Spring over you may need a little more lift and convert the knuckles to high steer ($$$$).

 

[ujoint]

I had that same style front end on my 78. I removed the driver side trac bar, and it freeded up the front end quite a bit. The downside is that those dual trac bars also act as a sort of sway bar, so there will be some weird handling issues. I got used to it, but it felt really crazy at first. ---- I completed the leaf spring swap for several reasons. I wanted 1 ton axles, and I wanted to lift the van for larger tires. The ride was OK, I had a 4" spring with a 4 inch "push" forward on the center pin. I didn't run a trac bar, and I had no steering issues, running crossover steering. This is a pic of my old van after the leaf spring conversion.

If you want to keep the coils & not lift the van any higher, update the suspension with new bushings and have someone fabricate a single trac bar using an adjustable unit from Donahoe or Fabtech. ----Chris

 

[\\'anderer]

I am still leaning toward leafs. The front axle sits back in the wheel well and causes my tires to rub. The door is so close to the wheel well trimming is not an option. Moving the axle forward a touch and a small lift would be nice.

 

[ntsqd]

I think it was Camburg Engineering that set up a 4wd van for Baja Chase duty. Would be worth calling Jerry and asking about the situation.

That funky tracbar arrangement is a problem. I've seen that b4 & wondered if that is due to the steering design? (Bob? designer name escapes me) Matters not, Early Broncos used that steeering design and a single tracbar very successfully.
In any case going to a proper tracbar set up by someone who understands what has to happen will aid wheel travel & ride quality tremendously.

Leaves are generally easy and cheap. However, for the same or less effort with coils you will get much better ride quality. After getting the tracbar situation sorted out I'd look into longer radius arms. Those two mods, combined with some monotube shocks will reap large gains.

 

[pete.wilson]

Hey

As for vans; if one did not need the four wheel drive but still wanted a bit more altitude, where can you go and find taller springs for the front and leafs for the back. I was looking at a nice custom 96 Ford E150. One could always put in a limited slip or a full locker if needed. It was only $3000 with a very nice interior and a 351, 99k miles. Thoughts

 

[ntsqd]

Not sure when Ford abandoned the Twin-I-Beam/Twin-Traction-Beam front end, but '96 is getting close.

I've no familiarity with the later A-Arm stuff. Might talk to Dixon Bros about the project as they are familiar with them.

If a TIB then lift springs for a 4wd truck are the most likely first source. Pay attention to the spring rates as they compare to stock, which will likely take some parts book digging and/or some physical measurements & calcs.
The springs are the relatively easy part of the front end. With a TIB or a TTB a properly done lift corrects for caster and camber by modifying the beams & radius arms rather than moving their mounting points down. Moving the mounts puts huge stresses on the brackets & frame. OK for mall cruiser, NFG for anything else. The two biggest names in TTB/TIB development are:
Autofab

Spirit Racing

In any case Deaver Spring has developed a good reputation for leaf springs in the desert racing world. Though just about any leaf spring vendor can supply what you are looking for.

 

[Photog]

Mike,
After looking at your photos, under your van, it looks like the odd trac-bars prevent the axle from moving straight up. Allowing only one side or the other to move (as you said). Good flex. It looks like there is a cross member above the axle, that would get crashed by the axle, if the trac bar design were changed. So; if you change the trac-bar design, you may also need to change the cross-member design.

You definitely need new bushings everywhere.

As for moving the axle forward, that would be easy, with a slightly longer set of radius arms. 1" forward would make loads of room behind the tire, and you may not need to change anything else. Even your bumpstops would line up better (I would add a flat pad on the axle, for the bumpstop to hit). Then you might need to trim the front of the wheel well, and possibly the bumper.