Van front suspension thoughts

[spencyg]

Yeah...the more I read about them the more regretful I am for ever initiating the transaction. If the delivery arrives with everything actually correct it will be a small miracle. There are 2 items which had to be changed for various reasons, 1 by me, 1 by them. Neither change appears in the shipping receipt they e-mailed so either they didn't update their books (which is possible) or they didn't change the order (which would be a big problem). I have no choice but to start removing the front end ahead of the order arriving due to scheduling on my end, so this could go very sideways in a quick hurry.

SG

 

[spencyg]

So as to prevent posting the same info in two different places...

It's getting real up in here...

SG

 

[spencyg]

Fin.







General impressions of the conversion:
-The fabrication required to "de-pathfinder" the front end of a Ford Quadravan is extensive.
-All original Pathfinder bracketry must be cut out.
-New Frame side and Axle side panhard bracket fabrication required
-Revised / New Steering Pitman Arm required
-Modified High-Steer Arm required for the passenger side knuckle
-All Tie Rod Ends are GM 1 Ton units (ES2026R, ES2027L)
-Axle Location is Stock
-Panhard Rod Ends are Ballistic Fabrication 2.63" Bushing Ends
-Panhard Rod Material 2" x 0.25" Wall DOM A513 Steel Tubing
-Tie Bar / Drag Link Material, 1.5" x 0.25" Wall DOM A513 Steel Tubing

All components fit with adequate clearances at full lock. There is no problem with the panhard bar to crossmember clearance (approx 0.25" clear worst case), and no problem with the clearance between the drag link TRE on the pitman arm and the panhard bar (0.125" worst case).

The improvements to steering response as well as articulation and general road handling are impressive. There is no longer any "dead center" steering feel and my rig can be controlled with 2 fingers on the wheel. I haven't had it on the trail yet but an initial articulation test indicated that 24" between the passenger front and driver rear tires wasn't a problem at all and there was still room under the bump stop. The harshness typically associated with bumps in the road with a Pathfinder front end have been significantly reduced to a very tolerable level. My stock RS5117 dampers are completely inadequate and I will need to upgrade to probably a 2.5" style damper (Fox, Sway-A-Way, etc) very soon. Much of the lingering mannerisms over large bumps will probably be eliminated with a damper upgrade.

Overall I'm very happy with this conversion. If you've got a good welder (nothing less than 175A 240V MIG unit recommended) and some reasonable fabrication skills than this shouldn't present any problems.

Full step by step details of the conversion have been highlighted in my build thread for those interested in a finer resolution explanation of the steps required.

SG

 

[ujoint]

Nice too see a swap like this finally done! No need for a sway bar?

Looks good

 

[spencyg]

Thanks Chris. And I agree....talk and theoreticals only go so far before its time to just do it.

I'll probably throw a Hellwig in the back when I get the chance....it isn't terrible but I'm sure a sway bar would be beneficial.

SG

 

[rockbender]

I currently do not have a sway bar either, front or rear. I think fitting one to the front would be a bit cumbersome, but agree that adding one to the rear would be beneficial and is on my list of things to do someday.

Great work on the de-pathfinder work, Spence!

 

[Mwilliamshs]

A quick search tonight didn't turn it up, and I'm not saying it would be the be-all/end-all but I've seen a sway bar whose ends mounted to the radius arms and the frame but the center section that you'd normally see across the frame, was mounted to the back of the axle. It was very tucked-in and unobtrusive. No idea how well it functioned and there's probably a reason it's not the typical design...but it exists!

Besides that oddity, I think a Currie Anti-Rock type bar would be pretty darn easy to incorporate.

 

[BajaSportsmobile]

Why do you need a sway bar. what are you trying to accomplish with it?

 

[Herbie]

Why do you need a sway bar. what are you trying to accomplish with it?

With a vehicle with that much side profile and weight up-top, I imagine it's purely about road manners at speed. I follow the TigerRV forum and a lot of owners with Van-based ClassBs tend to fit them to settle things down for highway driving. A quick-disconnect linkage would solve any issue when going offroad.

 

[rockbender]

Why do you need a sway bar. what are you trying to accomplish with it?

For me, I am considering a rear sway bar to minimize some body roll during on-road driving on curvy roads. I realize that installing a sway bar (without disconnects) will likely sacrifice a bit of off road capability and likely make side to side movement more harsh even, right? If time and money were endless I'd certainly get the rear spring rates 100% dialed before doing any sort of sway bar, but trying a sway bar out is pretty affordable and easily reversible. It hasn't bothered me enough to make it a priority obviously!

 

[spencyg]

OK. So I just returned from an 1800 mile trip on the new front end and it performed flawlessly. No bump steer, great flex, no binding or noise of any sort. I am 100% impressed with the improvement in handling and general road manners and can now recommend with complete confidence this modification for any pathfinder front end. Highway steering is a 2 finger chore now with no tenancy to pull or wander. My shocks need some serious attention and will be upgraded soon, but beyond that I may not put in a sway bar as I didn't experience what I consider un-safe sway conditions. I think a good set of custom valved dampers all around would clear up any latent handling issues. The roads I traveled varied from nice smooth high speed interstate down to washboard and potholed dirt roads with everything in between. If something were to break, it would have done so. I don't have any loosening of components after the trip and nothing seems to require further attention.

SG

 

[spencyg]

The ride quality was significantly improved. Any lingering unpleasantness I directly associated with my garbage Rancho shocks. Control in straight lines as well as turns is just remarkable with no tenancy to drift, no bump steer, straight forward braking response, etc. I'm looking into spending some good money on custom valved 2.5" Bilsteins, Fox, Sway-A-Way, or equivalent since I see this being the best path forward. I'm also curious about what hydraulic bump stops could benefit be and whether they would be good in addition to a damper upgrade, or whether they are something you do if your dampers aren't adequate. We lived off the bumpstops in portions of the Cabot Trail in Nova Scotia and it got tiresome in a hurry.

SG

 

[spencyg]

Your concerns on a rear sway bar parallel my own. I want to go with dampers first to address the small amount of sway I feel is unreasonable and only after going fully down that road will I consider a sway bar solution. A front sway would need to be relatively custom which I obviously don't have a problem with, but adds to the consideration factor. The rear can be purchased as a stock item but starting with a rear sway bar certainly can add to some concerning handling characteristics. Thanks for the tip on Raceshock.com. I'll start with them.

SG

 

[BajaSportsmobile]

Get the right shocks with correct valving and you won't need a sway bar.