Van front suspension thoughts

BajaSportsmobile

Baja Ironman
If you want a radius arm 60 - get one from a 2005 on up F250/350, complete with radius arms and panhard/track bar. Very common conversion - QuadVan...

The D44 will handle the weight without problem, you aren't going to break the housing or anything that holds the van up - you might break a u-joint under hard stress or even a drive axle, but I doubt it will ever happen.
 

Shocker

VanDOOM!
The Dana 44HD has a 3 inch tube diameter with 1/2" wall thickness. It is essentially a Dana 60 with the smaller center section. You are not buying anything in the way of housing strength by moving to the Dana 60. What you are buying is all the other parts.

Personally I don't feel that VanDOOM is compromised with the 44HD in it. If you read the Dana manual, there are 2 ratings for the 44HD. One is 3750 and the other is 4350 depending on the builder of the rig. Only Ford has the 4350 rated model. It was used in commercial and EMS vehicles like mine, but can be found in other rigs as well.

I was also worried about the load capacity of the 44HD as well before I researched my axle. Check out this thread : http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45065

Lots of info on how to do a radius arm D60.

FYI, most Dana 60's are rated at 4850 for the front axle.

My Pathfinder steering setup has been completely changed over. I will take a pic so you can see.
 

spencyg

This Space For Rent
I did a little digging last night. The door stickers indicate a 9000lb GVWR, 3968# Front, 6084# Rear. I've searched and searched without any confirmation as to the upper loading limit of my axle. If Vandoom is correct, this axle is probably the 4350# version since 3750# is below the front stated GVW. I poked around in the dirt and the existing knuckles are un-drilled flat tops, so my steering and panhard scenario stated above can work with my existing hardware. My next mission is a trip to the scales to get my actual front and rear weights.

If this all can work out with the existing Dana 44 HD (which I suspect it can), than the following task list should get the job done:
1. Remove the existing steering and panhard links
2. Cut off existing panhard brackets on both the axle and crossmember
3. Remove the PS Knuckle, drill for a high-steer arm and fabricate/mount arm
4. Fabricate the axle-end panhard pylon mount
5. Fabricate the frame-end panhard mount
6. Remove existing pitman arm, install new pitman arm with less droop angle
7. Fabricate and install Panhard Bar (bushing ends)
8. Fabricate and install steering drag link (tie rod ends)
9. Fabricate and install steering crossover link (tie rod ends)
10. Adult Beverage.

The above list doesn't represent much more than 20 hours of work which isn't too terrible. I've got to finish my rear swing out project first and then I'll be diving right into this.

SG
 

spencyg

This Space For Rent
Uuuuh. I just measured my axle tubes and they are 2.75". I was expecting 3". The axle is stock...never been swapped out. What gives? I don't see anything about Dana 44 HD axles without a 3" axle tube. The plot thickens.

I also don't have the reinforcement ribs that HD axles are supposed to have.







That just don't make no sense....

SG
 
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spencyg

This Space For Rent
The axle that's there has been working without trouble for how long?

A very reasonable point. My concern is that the van is heavier than it ever was under prior ownership, and it was never equipped with anything but stock tires until I got my hands on it. Before long the engine is going to get a mild turbo and we want to use the rig to explore points to the North where services are limited. 4WD is seldom used in Boomer....really only to get out of a sticky situation and not to go in search of one. I guess the big question is this....what would a reasonable "failure" look like out on the road? Just a broken gear or u-joint? If that is the worst that can happen then safely getting around in 2WD shouldn't be a problem. If I risk breaking the housing, busting off a knuckle, etc than I can't risk that. I think what the plan will be for now is to get the suspension straightened out with this axle, and have a lookout for something more robust.

As far as the trac-bar is concerned, I used to have a rig with a EB front end and it is exactly the geometry I have in mind here. Needless to say, dimensions need to increase a bit (5/8" translates to....say...1"), but overall I think there is enough room to pull this off.

SG
 

rockbender

Adventurer
Good to hear from you, Spence! Looking forward to hearing more about how the IDI is treating you after rebuild.

My 44HD also has 2.75" OD tubes, but with some trussing. Here is the way mine sits post-Pathfinder:

photo 1.JPG

photo 2.JPG

photo 3.JPG

The retro was all done when I bought the van, so I can't take credit for any of the fab work. As a general note, I like the additional clearance that the 44 housing brings over the 60. While it is still possible to put undue stress on the drivetrain in 4-low if bound up, it probably isn't too common for the IDI's to be twisting axle shafts on a regular basis. :)

Note to self - wipe things down a bit before taking pics!
 
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spencyg

This Space For Rent
THAT is exactly what I had in mind Rockbender! The only difference is that my steering drag link will go to a second steering arm bolted to the top of the PS knuckle. Whoever did that work on your axle knew what they were doing....and NT....that panhard bar is in double sheer :) How is the steering and general handling with your setup?


Could get some more pics of the trussing? That is very interesting and something I would consider doing while the axle was out.

It seems that the outer hub bearings for the Dana 44 that I've got are the same size as the Dana 60. If I were to truss the axle as RB has demonstrated than probably all this concern is moot.

As for my rebuilt IDI....it runs like a top. I picked up some good power along the way, most likely due to just cleaning the heads and valves up. Turning up the pump 1/4 turn didn't do a thing for me and my pyrometer never goes above 750F with the pedal mashed going up a steep incline. The next step will be a small remote turbo (~5psi), but I have other things to do before then.

SG
 

spencyg

This Space For Rent
Indeed. I would be using standard 1 ton TRE's everywhere in the steering linkage. I built a truck once with rod ends and they were always rusting up on me.

Interesting point about the truss. I guess I hadn't really considered the dynamics but you're right, a truss along the bottom loaded in tension would be the preferred method. Per your comments a few lines up, this would of course reduce ground clearance a little, but the benefit may outweigh the drawback.

As a side note, another project which may happen at the same time as the suspension revisions is a front brake upgrade. The existing brakes are pathetically small for the weight of the rig (12.75"x1.2" rotors). After a bit of digging it seems rotors from a late 80's P30 box van would swap in. At 14.5"x1.5" they are significantly larger, and with late 90's F450 calipers the whole thing would be a stopping machine. Without good suspension up front I wouldn't consider this upgrade. The only drawback from getting bigger brakes is that now the 16" wheel set won't fit. I've been looking at 19.5" super singles so that might have to happen at the same time.

C'mon lottery.

SG
 

rockbender

Adventurer
The steering and general handling is actually pretty dang good. Bump steer is minimal, and it is definitely a one hand down the road driver. With the added flexibility on the front end, I could really benefit from a sway bar I would think though. I currently have none, and am thinking about adding a rear. I am also curious to measure the true castor as it is set up - I may dial in another degree or two to help minimize any straight line wandering.

The rod ends have held up quite well. I recently replaced one on the pitman arm that had a little bit of visible movement, but excessive play in my steering box is the only thing loose at the moment.

On paper the truss will work better in tension without a doubt, but given the tradeoff I think the top mounted reinforcement is more than sufficient. This is especially true with spring perches that are so close to the axle end (compared to a leaf spring perch that is inset a bit more for example, which would have a greater bending moment at the differential).

Glad to hear the motor has been re-energized. Did you get a chance to do your injection timing? As long as it isn't too slow, it is almost kind of nice that you aren't pushing high EGT numbers so you don't have to watch it like a hawk.

I'll work on getting some more photos of the front axle for you. I can e-mail or post here - whichever works best.
 

spencyg

This Space For Rent
Post it up here....its all on-topic and I'm certain there are a number of people out there who are benefiting from this long-winded discussion.

SG
 

spencyg

This Space For Rent
I'm making good progress on other projects with Boomer and have parts on the way for my front end steering / suspension link modifications. I opted for the 2-5/8" Bushing links from Ballistic Fab for the panhard bar and will be using GM 1 Ton end links for all the steering connections. In addition to the actual linkage points, I also have tube adapters for both steering and panhard bars (2" OD 0.25" wall for the panhard, and 1.5" OD 0.25" wall for steering). I'm hoping to start digging into this toward the end of the month and will post up as I progress.

SG
 

New River KTM

Observer
Yes please post pictures and parts details if possible. I'm running a 1989 Pathfinder and not happy with current Y steering set up looking to go to something like you are showing here. I have a single track bar with I just built as the old one snapped. My current tie rod ends are shot so instead of replacing everything that I currently have looking to redesign. I'll post some pictures.
 

spencyg

This Space For Rent
I'm starting in on the big suspension mod this week. The Ballistic fab stuff STILL HASN'T ARRIVED but is supposed to be here Wednesday. I ordered this stuff on 7-4-14.....if anybody has other vendors for heavy duty offroad steering components it might be better to look somewhere other than Ballistic.

I'm finishing up the last of the fab and paint on some other van additions but will start pulling things apart on Wednesday. I'll post pics.

SG
 

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