Van front suspension thoughts

[ujoint]

You guys have to realize that the Pathfinder radius arm suspension setup in this van shares no common parts with a typical Ford radius arm solid axle setup. So yes, a Bronco type system would be a nice setup. The axle will have to be removed, all bracketry cut off, the axle tubes will need to be pulled from the center section, c-forgings will need to be installed over the tubes & reinstalled into the center section, then welded up, and you will need new radius arms & coil mounts. Then you still have to worry about the trac bar, which there never was room for in the first place (the reason for the dual trac bars). So I agree, this would be a nice setup, but you still have a Dana 44 on a vehicle that may be pushing 8000lbs by the time it's said & done. And what about cost? I'd be curious to find out what they'd charge for that conversion.

 

[G35Vortec454]

I've got to say this is a great front suspension thread/discussion!!!

 

[Photog]

I don't think I would want the Bronco shop to replace the suspension, with a Bronco copy. What I am suggesting is: The Bronco shop understands how a "Radius Arm" suspension is supposed to function; and they know how to make that type of suspension work in the limited space under a Bronco. They would know what springs (length & spring rate), to gain the desired lift, etc., etc...

I can see a van weighing 8000 lbs, when loaded; but what is the weight on the front axle, I wonder?

 

[ntsqd]

Concur, I wasn't suggesting that the existing radius arms be replaced with the Ford design radius arms, that would be work for no real gain.

As Photog said, my thinking is that they are well familiar with making the trac-bar/draglink system work in Broncos. This vehicle would not be all that much different.
In the case of WCB, I know that John has been working with Broncos for 20-odd years or more and has likely seen it all. In addition he is a talented fabricator. His new partner Dusty has extensive experience with Early Broncos and has family ties into desert racing Fords. That whole combo plus their relatively close location is what drives my suggestion in talking to them.

 

[TroySmith80]

It looks like I only get real suspension travel if only one side compresses, not both.

This looks like a terrible design! Did pathfinder do it this way all the way through 1991? Or did they revise this somewhere along the way?

 

[Photog]

I remember this thread, from almost 4 years ago.

Did this suspension ever get sorted out?

 

[ToyFamily]

You could remove both and add a "pan hard bar" that is as close to equal length and parallel to the drag link and you'll see alot less binding and more travel. much like a 3 link and a panhard suspension set up..or a more recent radius arm and pan hard set up.


Nick

 

[Keyblazer]

I have an interest in this thread, having a Pathfinder converted front end.

I looked thru the thread, the pics and suggestions, and didnt see something that I wanted to suggest and throw open to discussion...
Its proven, and works on road cars and would be a simple, effective, and I believe easy add...

What about a Watts linkage?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt's_linkage

Pic.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii18/wozzah1975/IMG_0779.jpg

Now normally the linkage is mounted on the axle and the arms to the chassis, but what about keeping the brackets on the axles, and mounting the linkage on the engine crossmember?
I am sure this would work, but offroad?

 

[\\'anderer]

I never did anything with the van, it just sat. life issues, money issues etc forced me to wait.

I have now begun to revive the van, new tires,fixing everything that happens to a vehicle that sits for four years. i will be getting it back on the road soon.

I picked up a leaf spring conversion kit from Chris a while back, but have not installed it yet. I still like coil spring setups, but I have not made up my mind yet. I need to get it back on the road and then take another look at the suspension. One thing for sure, it cannot stay the way it is now. What do newer sportsmobiles have for a suspension setup anyway?

 

[Photog]

Your pair of links, seems to prevent the axle from moving straight up. It does allow either side to move up on its own.

I think this was discussed earlier in the thread, but the limitations these links place on the suspension travel, probably prevents the axle from ramming the cross member.

If you have a kit from U-Joint (Chris), then the van should sit up a bit higher, the cross member will be trimmed for clearance, and the whole suspension can move up/down smoothly.

If the leafs of the leaf springs can be set up as "parabolic" springs, they will ride almost as smooth as coils. Parabolic leaves only touch at the middle and the tips. No other contact or friction points, along each leaf. There are a couple ways to accomplish this; but the leaf pack need to come apart to do it.

 

[TroySmith80]

I spoke to a guy with an '88 pathfinder and it sounds like his has the same 2 problem links. He said it rides very nicely... that's pretty subjective, he was also trying to sell me the van. I just can't imagine that these would ride near as well as a design without the limitation of those 2 links.

By the way, one wheel can't even go up to absorb a bump, without the other wheel going down, or the whole van coming up (approx.) half the height of the van!

 

[the boogie van]

ditch the trac bars you have now and go with a traditional style single bar from the pitman arm area to about where the old passenger side rod ends. should fit fine there, i see plenty off room once you get rid of all the stuff you don't need. check u joints thread, i just saw him do the same thing for a leaf spring front.

i would replace the steering too with a real inverted T style. that looks like they just kept the original i beam linkage, which is not ideal for a solid axle.

 

[spencyg]

BACK FROM THE GRAVE!!!!

This thread is now 7 years old....It would be in 2nd grade I think.

Seems like most of the folks who "had" a pathfinder front end on this thread have parted with their rigs so I'm an anomaly here. Boomer continues to limp along with its HORRENDOUS 2 link front trac-bar arrangement and we are within a couple months of fixing this crap for good.

Existing Condition





The first big thing I'm contemplating is swapping out the Dana 44 HD axle for a Dana 60. If I don't have to I would prefer not to, but I'm getting concerned about my GVW and the limitations of my axle. Both the front and rear are of concern and I've got a line on a Dana 80 rear and Dana 60 front which would certainly eliminate my concern. The big issue is of course the fact that the front axle would need to have all of these brackets swapped over, or a completely new system fabricated. If I could feel confident that the Dana 44 HD could reliably handle what I'm asking of it than I'll focus my attention on linkage revisions. At this point I have no intention of converting to leaves. The current Dana 44 plan is to get a flat top knuckle for the passenger side for the steering drag link. I'll use the lower arms to mount the crossover steering link. Between the drag link and the crossover link I'm going to extend out a pylon on which the panhard bar would connect. With a reduced angle pitman arm on the steering box it opens up a reasonable corridor for an equal length/equal angle panhard bar connecting directly to the frame on the driver side. All of the brackets for the existing dual trac-bar abortion-of-a-linkage would be removed from both the axle as well as the crossmember. During this swap I'm also considering a 1" spacer on the springs to give me a little more clearance in the bump direction. The whole works would be finished up with a pair of 5000 series Bilsteins and a steering stabilizer.

The big question as previously stated is whether this old Dana 44 HD axle can handle the 8500lb truck it is supporting. I have equal reservations about the Dana 60 in the rear, but for the time being I need to really understand how close to the end I'm currently sitting in terms of axle capacity.

I've got another fabrication job I'm in the middle of on the van (rear swing-outs) but this is next in queue.

SG

 

[spencyg]

I've got a call into the guy at pathfinder-vans to clarify the rating of the Dana 44 used in the van. I suspect it is identical to the late 70's F250 application you refer to. I don't "wheel" Boomer but if all it would take is a little tire spin to snap the Dana 44 than I really should be looking at an upgrade.

Going to a 60 of course is its own nightmare with all of the linkage considerations, but bigger brakes would be very welcome and I've been lusting over 19.5's for awhile now

Indeed the 5k series Bilsteins are on the light side. I'll take a look at the Fox offerings. My current dampers are only a few years old but completely inadequate for the weight of the van. I'll report back on what the guy at PF-Vans comes back with.

SG

 

[ujoint]

I may have already posted this somewhere else but I yanked the d side trace bar from my pathfinder way back when and it was sketchy! Put it back until I totally ditched the Pathfinder setup and make a leaf sprung suspension with a D60. I think it would have been fine with a new longer trace bar as well as a good sway bar.

I've seen guys take the C forgings from the 44's and have them bored out for the 60 tubes. Lots of work but its cool to have a radius arm D60.