Van heating thread

[Mwilliamshs]

Video claiming 4k btu is much too high heat output in what looks like a long, tall sprinter insulated with reflectix

There are others by CheapRVLiving, VanCityVanLife, etc making similar claims. They're all saying the Buddy Heater puts out too much heat, even on low.

Just an interesting notion but it's been confirmed by enough sources, independent of one another, that I trust it. VanCityVanLife is in an EB Ford with reflectix and some foam board in Vancouver. Bob from CheapRvLiving is primarily in the desert during the winter but also discusses his years in a box truck (or step van, I forget) in Alaska with similar findings.

One of Bob's videos wherein he discusses it:

VanCityVanLife compares the 2 here:
He concludes the Wave3 is better in a van because it's a lower output heater that can run longer and heat more evenly.

 

[Mwilliamshs]

I think the only reason the high heater output bothers anybody is that it's manually controlled (on-off) and not adjustable to anything less than 4k btu. The Wave3 is controlled the same way but its output is so much less it can just be left on more often.

I think the best compromise would be a heater that has an output similar to the 9k btu Buddy heater, which everyone raves about for its power to rapidly heat the van, but with an automatic control to hold a preset temperature.

Like the 9k BTU output Everest Star 8012.

If 3k btu per hour can keep a van comfortable, the Everest Star need only run 20 minutes of that hour, using only 0.6 ah of power.

The advantages of the Everest Star are that it can run that full hour if need be, heating much more than even the Buddy heater (thanks to being a fast conductive heater, versus a slow radiant one) and that it does not increase moisture inside the van or reduce oxygen or risk carbon monoxide poisoning.

This low btu requirement is why continuous blower heaters like Propex, Webasto, etc are poorly matched to vans in my opinion. They spend lots of time just moving air past their temperature sensors, burning electricity, and pulling dust, dirt, dander, etc through their heat exchangers for no reason. Then when you do need heat, they fire up high-wattage glow plugs (diesel models) and spin their very small fans very fast to heat the van, then go through a few stages of fume clearing and cooling, then go back to just blowing air and dust through themselves...burning electrical power the whole time and depending on computers and sensors and fuel pumps, glow plugs, etc to do it. Not my style.

 

[Coachgeo]

get the smaller Mr. Buddy or the Coleman.... instead of a large one .... that is if it has a lower output on it's lowest setting??? the moisture issue does not change though. Granted he did say the moisture was far less an issue using the camp LP stove with heatsink and fan.

 

[Mwilliamshs]

get the smaller Mr. Buddy or the Coleman.... instead of a large one .... that is if it has a lower output on it's lowest setting??? the moisture issue does not change though. Granted he did say the moisture was far less an issue using the camp LP stove with heatsink and fan.

The moisture issue is the same (1 gal lpg = .81 gal h20). He's just burning less propane.

There are 3 buddy heaters: little buddy, buddy, big buddy.

The Little Buddy has a fixed output of 3,800 BTU. It mounts onto a 1 lb propane cylinder. It's taller than the Buddy but requires the same 30" overhead clearance so it's less suited to low roof vans as it points up at about a 30° angle.

The Buddy has an adjustable output of 4,000-9,000 BTU. It can use 1lb cylinders or a remote tank with an optional hose and filter.

The Big Buddy is basically 2 Buddy heaters in 1 case. It has an adjustable output of 4,000-9,000 or 18,000 BTU. It can use 1lb cylinders or a remote tank with an optional hose and filter.

The Buddy heaters are cheap and readily available but have reliability issues.

The Coleman SportCat is similar to the Little Buddy in that it mounts atop a 1 lb cylinder. It has a fixed output of 1,500 BTU. It points straight up so it's very poorly suited to a van. It has no built-in ignitor, unlike the Buddy heaters, so it must be lit by hand with a match, etc.

The Coleman has a price tag higher than even the middle Buddy and it has a very poor record for reliability. I've personally seen 2 fail. 1 burned a golf cart to ashes and the other gave a woman 3rd degree burns on her leg...from freezing her so severely when it sprayed her with raw liquid propane.

 

[dwh]

I thought the Coleman SportCat was discontinued.

 

[Mwilliamshs]

I thought the Coleman SportCat was discontinued.

It has been a few times. Currently listed on Amazon though. https://www.amazon.com/Coleman-SportCat-PerfecTemp-Catalytic-Heater/dp/B0009PUPSI

 

[Mwilliamshs]

Chinese Diesel parking heaters are a fad this year. Espar knockoffs basically. A guy in this video parks in 0°F weather in an uninsulated Vanagon Westfalia (lots of windows) and the poptop up. His 5kw Chinese Diesel runs on high continuously to maintain 68-70°F inside, with windows curtained off.

1kw = 3,412.142 BTU
5kw = 17,060.71 BTU
that's per hour
Diesel has 139,000 BTU/gal
that's normal #2 diesel
Not Winter Blend which has less
139,000 / 17,060 = 8 hours and a little less than 9 minutes. So in 24 hours on high you'll burn 2.945 gallons of diesel.

Video:

 

[Paddy]

I’ve installed several genuine espar and Chinese knock off d2 and d5 heaters. They are all fantastic. They don’t use anywhere near 3gal diesel per day either. The clicking sounds are the only annoying thing, but there’s ways to mitigate that. I would never consider a radiant heater that burns inside air, releasing CO, consumes my oxygen and produces tons of water vapor. That’s all wrong. Not knocking them, maybe they are great but for me, that’s a no-go.
Buy a Chinese knock off d2, for like 150$, and enjoy smooth quiet safe clean diesel heating. The genuine espar has a much better thermostat, the knock offs seem to just have 1-7 settings or a pump he cycle setting which is pretty lame, but for the 800$ savings, I’ll put up with the quirks.
Also, the knock offs come with a nice flat diesel tank so people, with gas rigs can still enjoy the warmth.
I installed one webasto hydronic unit and will not do that again. The hysteresis was a problem and it made for a loud, and smelly in comparison unit to the airtronic models that settle into a nice slow churn.

 

[chet6.7]

Buy a Chinese knock off d2, for like 150$, and enjoy smooth quiet safe clean diesel heating. .

Is there a brand that is better than the others,or are they mostly all the same with different brand names?

 

[Mwilliamshs]

I’ve installed several genuine espar and Chinese knock off d2 and d5 heaters. They are all fantastic. They don’t use anywhere near 3gal diesel per day either...

Again, that's the big 5kw unit, running on high for 24 hours straight. Not a very likely real-world scenario but it is the one discussed specifically in that video.

 

[Paddy]

Is there a brand that is better than the others,or are they mostly all the same with different brand names?

I’m pretty sure they all come out of the same bin. They aren’t even really branded at all that I’ve noticed.

 

[chet6.7]

I’m pretty sure they all come out of the same bin. They aren’t even really branded at all that I’ve noticed.

Thanks,that was my impression as well.

 

[b. rock]

Do those Chinese ones have an adjustment for running at altitude?

 

[Victorian]

Do those Chinese ones have an adjustment for running at altitude?

As far as I know they don't. Espar and Webasto is good for about 4-5000ft. Planar is good till 8000ft with the altitude upgrade ($70 more). We had our Planar 2d (regular model) up at 10.000 without issues. You can use kerosene to further increase the altitude compensation.

Cheers

 

[luthj]

In my experience these heaters have higher air flow rates. That means higher power consumption, but they do handle altitude a bit better, even without compensation. There are other pump options with lower stroke volume. So if you can find what spec the pump is, a replacement pump (usually around 50$) can be used to adjust for high altitude operation.

Kerosene helps prevent the coking that occurs during rich burn. It won't prevent overheating though, which can happen at mild temps and high altitude.