tacollie
Glamper
Some people are light sleepers. We never had an issue sleeping in our FWC but my buddy doesn't sleep well in his.
Van vs Truck Camper
- Thread starter tomtaylz
- Start date
Sparse Gray Hackle
Geezer
Just to share first hand knowledge - you might change your mind if your camper develops the problem.
Interesting. But I dont think Ram does that, at least based on what I read. Not sure how tire and wheel choices can affect GVRW but that must be some Ford magic.
Cheers
tacollie
Glamper
Ram ups the GVWR for the diesel 3500s. The gas trucks can be built to the same specs for all we know.
Ford is notorious for derating payload numbers. You can spec a F250 identical to a F350 but they get different stickers on the door jam.
GeorgeHayduke
Active member
The data is right here on Ram's website:
https://www.ramtrucks.com/BodyBuild...jGgHzAHGUTU0WB3rWuqSY7YmQ2vEhuBWBFy6Od5Hdu/D
Single rear wheel 3500 trucks get 800-900 pounds higher GVWR when outfitted with the Cummins than the hemi.
2500 class trucks are all limited to 10,000 pounds GVWR, so you don't get a payload increase on those.
Interesting. But the statement "they adjust the GVRW up on the diesels" is nothing magic - the diesel engine just weighs more so GVRW goes up automatically. GVRW is just the overall weight of the vehicle with passengers and fuel so with the heavier diesel engine, thats not surprising. But, payload, the measure of how much a vehicle can haul, is still higher for the hemi vs cummins trucks. And that payload number is what really matters when figuring out what truck to match with a given camper.
phsycle
Adventurer
Why would the GVWR automatically go up with a heavier engine? Obviously, suspension, braking, frame will need to be modified to gain a higher GVWR. If not, the extra weight just eats into payload.
tacollie
Glamper
They derate the GVWR for the gas truck.
phsycle
Adventurer
You’re thinking of Curb Weight.
GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) does not change because you install a heavier engine.
"Gross Vehicle Weight ( GVWR ) is the weight of the vehicle at full capacity. It includes the curb weight, or empty weight, plus the weight of the driver, all passengers, engine, engine fluids, fuel, and the cargo that the vehicle is carrying. It does NOT include the weight the vehicle may be towing.
2023 ram 3500 gvrw -- Hemi -- 11,000; Cummins 11,800 -- all according to Ram
2023 ram 3500 gvrw -- Hemi -- 11,000; Cummins 11,800 -- all according to Ram
phsycle
Adventurer
You left out the key operating word in the acronym. “R” stands for Rating. ie Its “capacity” in the definition you quoted is not a fluid number.
Obviously, like many other vehicles with diesel and gas engine options, each engine gets its own unique suspension, brake, etc. as the manufacturer sees fit to handle the weight rating. So just because you swap a gas engine for diesel in your truck, the GVWR does NOT go up.
I have a friend with the exact same truck - 2015 ram 3500 Laramie SRW and 6.5' box. Mine has the Hemi, his has the Cummins. The manufacturer's sticker indicates my truck is 636 pounds less GVRW. And, having worked in the insurance industry for many years, I can tell you that the manufacturer set GVRW number is anything but fluid for a particular vehicle. The GVRW cannot be changed legally by the consumer no matter what you do to suspension etc. You can improve payload but since payload is included in GVRW, that GVRW number is still fixed. I've worked on a number of cases where a truck owner, carrying a weight that far surpassed the payload set by the manufacturer (payload being included as part of the GVRW), is involved in an accident with injuries. Not only did the truck owner lose the civil suit and have his claim denied, the manufacturer's engineers testified that no modifications made to a vehicle by anyone other than the manufacturer can change the GVRW - I know there's a whole lot of debate about what goes into establishing GVRW - but when its set and put on that sticker, thats it.
Here is the link previously posted that shows the manufacturer's ratings for the various Ram trucks and the GVRW is indeed higher for diesel vs gas engines. https://www.ramtrucks.com/BodyBuild...jGgHzAHGUTU0WB3rWuqSY7YmQ2vEhuBWBFy6Od5Hdu/D
Of course, the duallies have a much higher GVRW and payload.
Hope that helps
Here is the link previously posted that shows the manufacturer's ratings for the various Ram trucks and the GVRW is indeed higher for diesel vs gas engines. https://www.ramtrucks.com/BodyBuild...jGgHzAHGUTU0WB3rWuqSY7YmQ2vEhuBWBFy6Od5Hdu/D
Of course, the duallies have a much higher GVRW and payload.
Hope that helps
GeorgeHayduke
Active member
I'm so confused by your logic.
First you were asking for evidence that Ram increased the GVWR on diesel vs gas and claimed that Ram actually "reduced GVRW for diesel vs gas engine trucks". This is not true as I showed in the link I gave you. GVWR is the same for 2500's and higher on diesel 3500's.
You then claimed that payload "is still higher for the hemi vs cummins trucks" but this is also not necessarily true. Payload = GVWR - vehicle weight and Ram ups the GVWR on 3500 by enough to basically offset the additional weight of the Cummins giving you more or less the same payload on a 3500 regardless of engine choice. The GVWR is not increased on 2500 trucks, so the diesel payload is reduced on those, but if payload is a priority you should be looking at a 3500 not 2500 anyways.
You then claimed that GVWR automatically goes up for heavier trucks but it is not true that a heavier configuration automatically gets a higher GVWR. In fact this is why higher trim level trucks with the same engine end up with less payload. The GVWR is unchanged but all the extra gadgets are heavy, increase curb weight, and reduce available payload. OEMs have to do their full engineering analysis to increase GVWR, which is why it is so noteworthy that Ram increases it on diesel 3500's.
Now you report a personal anecdote showing that what we've been saying is correct, that Ram does in fact increase the GVWR on diesel 3500 trucks vs gas. You've had the evidence for the things we've been saying all along and it directly contradicts your earlier claim that GVWR is reduced on diesels!
As an aside, one nontrivial drawback to Ram upping the GVWR on diesels is that a 3500 crew cab long bed has a 12300 pound GVWR, which means you're in CDL territory when pulling a 14000 pound trailer, which is a pretty standard size for dump trailers or anything else with two 7000 pound axles.