Van vs Truck Camper

[kmacafee]

I think if you reread the posts, you might be confusing my comments with others. I've consistently maintained that Ram trucks with diesels weigh more than those with gas engines. For SRW trucks, payload is less for diesel trucks than gassers since the weight of the engine is part of the overall Gvrw.

If you compare 2 trucks,one with diesel and 1 with gas, the diesel will weigh more overall but its payload will be less. Other factors that affect Gvrw and payload include options - lightest trucks with greatest payloads tend to be regular cab, 2wd, short beds. Adding 4wd, more options like bigger cabs reduce payload.

So, I think we're on the same page. But, I don't agree that adding options doesn't change Gvrw. You state that by adding options and trim levels, you increase curb weight and reduce payload without changing gvrw. By definition, gvrw includes curb weight so if it goes up, gvrw goes up accordingly.

I'm not sure how or if OEMs can manipulate gvrw - it weighs what it weighs.

 

[phsycle]

But, I don't agree that adding options doesn't change Gvrw. You state that by adding options and trim levels, you increase curb weight and reduce payload without changing gvrw. By definition, gvrw includes curb weight so if it goes up, gvrw goes up accordingly.

You can improve payload but since payload is included in GVRW, that GVRW number is still fixed.

🤣🤣🤣

 

[GeorgeHayduke]

By definition, gvrw includes curb weight so if it goes up, gvrw goes up accordingly.

This is just plain wrong. GVWR (you keep calling it GVRW) is a weight *rating* related to how much weight the tires/wheels/axles/suspension/frame/brakes/etc can safely handle and doesn't go up just because the vehicle is loaded heavier. By your logic you could keep adding stuff to the vehicle and never exceed the weight rating. It's better to think of the GVWR as part of an inequality where you're supposed to keep the unloaded curb weight + actual loaded payload (which includes tongue weight if towing) < GVWR.

You state that by adding options and trim levels, you increase curb weight and reduce payload without changing gvrw.

Yes, this is in fact exactly what happens. Go look at any Ram truck lot and you'll see that for the same cab, engine and bed configuration a Tradesman has higher payload than a Laramie because the extra goodies detract from the available payload.

If you compare 2 trucks,one with diesel and 1 with gas, the diesel will weigh more overall but its payload will be less

Again, the payload part of this statement is true for 2500's but not single rear wheel 3500's.

GVWR is tied to insurance and DMV taxes/registration/licensing categories: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_classification. Traditionally, 2500 trucks have been class 2b (although I believe GM has recently moved their 2500's to class 3) because many states tax 2b trucks lower than class 3 trucks and some roads exclude class 3 trucks. Because you're up against the 10,000 pound GVWR limit in this class diesel 2500's have less payload than gassers.

3500 trucks are class 3 which has GVWR's of 10,001-14,000 pounds. DRW trucks are generally 14,000 pounds while the OEM's set the SRW GVWR's based on their own engineering analysis and it usually is in the 11,000 - 12,000 pound range. Because they're not at the top of the class limits, OEM's can assign a higher GVWR if they deem it appropriate and Ram does. The extra 800-900 pounds in diesel 3500 SRW GVWR means that the payloads are basically the same between 3500 SRW gas and diesel.

 

[ramblinChet]

Maybe things have changed since 2021 but back then there were no diesel RAMs with higher payload capacity when compared to a gas engine in the same configuration. At best, the diesel was the same as the gas.

Here are the payload numbers from 2021. GAS is 6.4L Hemi, DIE is standard 6.7L Cummins, and DIE HO is high output 6.7L Cummins.

RAM 2500 4X4 REGULAR CAB: TRADESMAN 8' BOX (GAS 3.7k / DIE 2.8k)
RAM 2500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN 6'4" BOX (GAS 3.4k / DIE 2.5k)
RAM 2500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN W/ RAMBOX (GAS 3.2k / DIE 2.4k)
RAM 2500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN 8' BOX (GAS 3.1k / DIE 2.2k)
RAM 3500 4X4 MEGA CAB: BIG HORN / LONE STAR 6'4" BOX SRW (GAS 4.3k / DIE 4.3k / DIE HO 4.1k)
RAM 3500 4X4 MEGA CAB: BIG HORN / LONE STAR 6'4" BOX DRW (GAS 6.6k / DIE 5.7k / DIE HO 5.5k)
RAM 3500 4X4 MEGA CAB: BIG HORN / LONE STAR W/ RAMBOX (GAS 4.3k / DIE 4.1k / DIE HO 4.0k)
RAM 3500 4X4 REGULAR CAB: TRADESMAN 8' BOX SRW (GAS 4.6k / DIE 4.5k / DIE HO 4.4k)
RAM 3500 4X4 REGULAR CAB: TRADESMAN 8' BOX DRW (GAS 7.2k / DIE 6.4k / DIE HO 6.1k)
RAM 3500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN 6'4" BOX (GAS 4.3k / DIE 4.3k / DIE HO 4.0k)
RAM 3500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN W/ RAMBOX (GAS 4.1k / DIE 4.1k / DIE HO 3.9k)
RAM 3500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN 8' BOX SRW (GAS 4.5k / DIE 4.5k / DIE HO 4.3k)
RAM 3500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN 8' BOX DRW (GAS 6.7k / DIE 5.9k / DIE HO 5.6k)

It looks like the gas engine wins most every time while there are a few ties with the non-HO engine. Sometimes the difference is only a few hundred pounds whereas other times it is around 1/2 ton. GAS wins 69% of the time while GAS and DIE tie 31%. Diesel never carries more payload when compared to gas. I guess is really depends upon your individual package.

 

[kmacafee]

Ok I give up. We'll have to agree to disagree. Your fuzzy math and illogical responses are pretty funny. You have a right to your own opinions but not your own set of facts.

Cheers

 

[84FLH]

Don't know which came first, but the older I get, the greater my GVWR becomes, and the less active I become, which leads to >GVWR. It's a vicious circle.

Oh well. Time for ice cream, now.

 

[phsycle]

I’m going to give @kmacafee the benefit of doubt. Perhaps some miscommunication here.

To be clear, and posting for posterity’s sake:

If:

GVWR = 8,000lbs
Curb Weight = 6,000lbs
Then Payload = 2,000lbs

If you add options (ie drivetrain, sunroof, leather, bigger screen, etc):

GVWR = 8,000lbs
Curb Weight = 6,000lbs
Options = 500lbs
Then Payload = 1,500lbs

THE GVWR DOES NOT CHANGE!
Look in the door jamb of any like trucks. Same truck config, same engine. The yellow sticker in the door jamb will have varying payload numbers. Why? Because different options affect the PAYLOAD, and NOT the GVWR. GVWR is fixed from the factory. Some HD trucks, you can get them recertified to increase GVWR, but it’s an involved process.

 

[Todd780]

Back on topic. (Although I believe the OP already got a Transit)

Van vs Truck camper. Why debate? Just get a van truck and have both!

 

[rmnkb]

For my use case van is an easy choice. I use mine mostly for outdoor sports and I can easily fit a mountain bike plus tons of kiteboarding/wing foiling gear under the bed, while the swivel seats still provide decent living/eating/working space. Even the largest truck campers don't provide this kind of gear storage. The space inside truck campers is usually optimized for living space (dinette, recliners, etc.)

 

[rruff]

Even the largest truck campers don't provide this kind of gear storage. The space inside truck campers is usually optimized for living space (dinette, recliners, etc.)

Which is why we have to build our own...

 

[deserteagle56]

For my use case van is an easy choice. I use mine mostly for outdoor sports and I can easily fit a mountain bike plus tons of kiteboarding/wing foiling gear under the bed, while the swivel seats still provide decent living/eating/working space. Even the largest truck campers don't provide this kind of gear storage. The space inside truck campers is usually optimized for living space (dinette, recliners, etc.)

Yup! I have a dually with a cabover camper mounted on it...and a 4x4 E350. If I take the truck/camper combo I always need to drag a trailer behind it for the "toys". So there's only so many places I can take it. A motorcycle or quad fits nicely inside the van. AND I can take the van into camping spots I'd never be able to take the truck/camper combo.

 

[Highlander]

me when I see photos, places and setups like this

 

[NevadaLover]

me when I see photos, places and setups like this

View attachment 793123

That's a great area to camp, and at certain times you get to watch fighter jets from the NAS Fallon top gun program do their training, very entertaining and sometimes they use you as a static target, literally flying right over your head.

 

[vintageracer]

Truck camper for the WIN!

 

[deserteagle56]

That's a great area to camp, and at certain times you get to watch fighter jets from the NAS Fallon top gun program do their training, very entertaining and sometimes they use you as a static target, literally flying right over your head.

Absolutely! For me the best part is when I'm high on some ridge looking down into a deep canyon and one of those F-18s comes barreling down through the canyon and I'm looking DOWN onto the jet below me. Now that's cool! Even watching them bomb one of their targets is neat. How many people get to see something like that?