VANdiana Jones sequel: The Legacy Continues
- Thread starter mk216v
- Start date
mgmetalworks
Explorer
Always fun working on VANdiana! So clean and well built!
mk216v
Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
Oh you're going to like them. Dunno that you're going to want to swap out your "crested-vehicle" seats for these, but they are daaaarn nice for the money.
mgmetalworks
Explorer
They get disconnected and tucked away neatly under the upholstery. The process of removing them completely is quite involved so I opt to just leave them in the seat.
mk216v
Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
Sorry my PM box was full, all clear now for your 2 PM's, thanks.
mk216v
Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
Starting on the L-track on VANdiana. MG is at the helm!
Bedrug out;
Using the UJOR bracket as a jig. Will be lining up L-track in the "valley" of the floor ridges, on driver and pass side. RR seat will be inboard a bit from MG's RR seat in his EB. LR seat will be shoved as close to driver side interior plastic as possible(probably will offset UJOR's bracket holes to allow for this positioning);
100" lengths with 4" on center = a lot of holes for MG to drill. That's why he's the Drill Sergeant. :chef:
Bedrug out;
Using the UJOR bracket as a jig. Will be lining up L-track in the "valley" of the floor ridges, on driver and pass side. RR seat will be inboard a bit from MG's RR seat in his EB. LR seat will be shoved as close to driver side interior plastic as possible(probably will offset UJOR's bracket holes to allow for this positioning);
100" lengths with 4" on center = a lot of holes for MG to drill. That's why he's the Drill Sergeant. :chef:
Something else to consider for steep descents in an auto trans equipped truck is a torque converter lockup switch, which would allow for more of a manual trans like engine braking feel.
If you have never been in a rock buggy or hard core rock truck, you will be amazed at what gearing can do for you. I realise that is not what the van is built for, but you can use this technology to your advantage. Ideally, you would want to equip the van with a much deeper gearset in your transfer case or install something like an Atlas four speed.
Otherwise, if your torque converter is locked up, your gearing will actually push through your brakes. What you want to do is stay off the brakes completely. This gives you the most traction and the most control for a climb or a descent.
5R110 has a 3.1 first gear, torque converter is about 2.2 further reduction, 4.56 axles and 2.72 transfer case. So your best crawl ratio is about 85:1, which is actually pretty good. An auto equipped JKUR is about 105:1.
The torque multiplication (gear reduction) from your torque converter that helps you "crawl" is actually hurting you on a steep descent. If you were to lock that torque converter and install a 10:34 to 1 Atlas, you now have 146:1 slowing you down. Many people don't think about gear reduction in this way, but coming from a Toyota rock crawling back ground with manual transmissions, it is an absolute neccessity for me off road. A light tap of the brakes can always be used if desired.
Edit: at 800 RPM and 146:1, with your torque converter locked up, you would be crawling at 0.6 MPH. Speed is not your friend on steep descents as you have already experienced. That speed is gearing only and not using the brakes.
Another item you may wish to consider is a "cancel" switch for ABS when off roading. I will leave you to do your own research on that but they are used on large off road & dual sport bikes like GS1200, as well as options on Unimogs and some other heavy off roaders. Like gearing, ABS can help you or hurt you off road.
Congrats on the van purchase and mods. I did not follow the original build, but I like what you are doing with it and I also read your Gelandewagen build.
If you have never been in a rock buggy or hard core rock truck, you will be amazed at what gearing can do for you. I realise that is not what the van is built for, but you can use this technology to your advantage. Ideally, you would want to equip the van with a much deeper gearset in your transfer case or install something like an Atlas four speed.
Otherwise, if your torque converter is locked up, your gearing will actually push through your brakes. What you want to do is stay off the brakes completely. This gives you the most traction and the most control for a climb or a descent.
5R110 has a 3.1 first gear, torque converter is about 2.2 further reduction, 4.56 axles and 2.72 transfer case. So your best crawl ratio is about 85:1, which is actually pretty good. An auto equipped JKUR is about 105:1.
The torque multiplication (gear reduction) from your torque converter that helps you "crawl" is actually hurting you on a steep descent. If you were to lock that torque converter and install a 10:34 to 1 Atlas, you now have 146:1 slowing you down. Many people don't think about gear reduction in this way, but coming from a Toyota rock crawling back ground with manual transmissions, it is an absolute neccessity for me off road. A light tap of the brakes can always be used if desired.
Edit: at 800 RPM and 146:1, with your torque converter locked up, you would be crawling at 0.6 MPH. Speed is not your friend on steep descents as you have already experienced. That speed is gearing only and not using the brakes.
Another item you may wish to consider is a "cancel" switch for ABS when off roading. I will leave you to do your own research on that but they are used on large off road & dual sport bikes like GS1200, as well as options on Unimogs and some other heavy off roaders. Like gearing, ABS can help you or hurt you off road.
Congrats on the van purchase and mods. I did not follow the original build, but I like what you are doing with it and I also read your Gelandewagen build.
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mk216v
Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
All 4 '15 Sienna's are in, as is black powdercoated L-track. LOTS and LOTS of work installing 10' strips of L-track, but the flexibility is fantastic. Had 4 seats installed going into NW Overland Rally(ExPo), unfastened the nuts for the LR seat, in less than 8min had moved the seat forward about 12". Removed the RR seat in 8min to allow more access for our trip. If the seats had been bolted thru the floor like OEM, would have taken much longer to remove the shield under RR of truck, then 2 people to unfasten the bolts/nuts. With the L-track I can do it all myself in much less time, plus I can fully customize the interior(seats/cargo) for whatever trip I'm taking.
A few pics;
Trip mode;
What you can't see in these pics is that i n the far rear, forward of the fridge and such, I re-installed the factory seat bracket bolts with the McMaster-Carr d-rings, so that I have even more possible tie-down points.
For a trip with 2, having only 3 seats in makes the most sense to me, as tested this past weekend. RF seat can be swiveled and reclined for relaxing. LR seat can be reclined for relaxing, and both are facing towards each other which is good for any conversations.
Compared to my G, the extra room the van offers for lounging and moving around in it is very very welcome. With the G, if the weather was horrible, we'd be sitting in the front seats like we were driving; not very comfortable as with the rear seats stuffed with gear, the front seats couldn't be reclined much--certainly no feet-up position like the Sienna's in the van affords. Now with the van, if the weather is horrible(or incredibly hot like this past weekend--thank goodness for an inverter and household fan!), we can relax and stretch out in comfort in the van, all without needing to get out of the van at all. I cannot tell you how this single change has transformed the traveling experience.
A few pics;
Trip mode;
What you can't see in these pics is that i n the far rear, forward of the fridge and such, I re-installed the factory seat bracket bolts with the McMaster-Carr d-rings, so that I have even more possible tie-down points.
For a trip with 2, having only 3 seats in makes the most sense to me, as tested this past weekend. RF seat can be swiveled and reclined for relaxing. LR seat can be reclined for relaxing, and both are facing towards each other which is good for any conversations.
Compared to my G, the extra room the van offers for lounging and moving around in it is very very welcome. With the G, if the weather was horrible, we'd be sitting in the front seats like we were driving; not very comfortable as with the rear seats stuffed with gear, the front seats couldn't be reclined much--certainly no feet-up position like the Sienna's in the van affords. Now with the van, if the weather is horrible(or incredibly hot like this past weekend--thank goodness for an inverter and household fan!), we can relax and stretch out in comfort in the van, all without needing to get out of the van at all. I cannot tell you how this single change has transformed the traveling experience.
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mk216v
Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
Thanks very much! The TC lockup switch sounds like a winner. Researching now...
Also, what about an exhaust brake?(we have one in our shop truck from Banks, compliments our Banks big turbo kit, although we tow a lot with our truck and that's why we went with an exhaust brake for long on-pavement hill descents with the trailer).
The one descent on the WRT, I didn't feel confident enough that the van would move slow enough with me being off the brakes. I'll have to test it out(off brakes vs on brakes) by myself on less steep descents.
I have 4.10's and NV271.
Thanks for the compliments!
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jjohnny350
Adventurer
dangggg, thats pretty rad, the flexibility that brings has to be amazing, perfect setup.
With 4.10 diffs, you are about 78:1 crawl ratio with an open torque converter, still pretty good.
If you were to install a 10.34 Atlas and a lockup switch for TC, your crawl ration would be at 289:1, which is fantastic. Your lock-up crawl would be 131 to one, which would be used to slow the van on descents.
If you "presume" a locked up torque converter in your current setup, you have about 34 to one. The deeper gearing allows for close to a 400% reduction in descent speed, not touching the brakes. That is a massive improvement for a large/heavy truck.
Seats look good. Any plans to cover the tracks to prevent them getting full of crap? I imagine they are not easy to clean out...
If you were to install a 10.34 Atlas and a lockup switch for TC, your crawl ration would be at 289:1, which is fantastic. Your lock-up crawl would be 131 to one, which would be used to slow the van on descents.
If you "presume" a locked up torque converter in your current setup, you have about 34 to one. The deeper gearing allows for close to a 400% reduction in descent speed, not touching the brakes. That is a massive improvement for a large/heavy truck.
Seats look good. Any plans to cover the tracks to prevent them getting full of crap? I imagine they are not easy to clean out...
mk216v
Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
Thanks guys!! Very very happy with how the seats turned out.
Maybe the Atlas will go on the wish list once I have a bunch of other mods done first.
So with a manual TC lockup switch, my NV271 and 4:10's, my lock-up crawl would be what?(is there some calculator I can enter these figures into?) A friend is going to investigate the lockup switch for me.
Thanks again for bringing this to my attention!!
Yes on the track covers(although a vacuum cleans them well, unless you get mud in there), ordering these soon, along with various d-ring stud fittings;
http://www.uscargocontrol.com/Ratchet-Straps-Tie-Downs/L-Track-Stud-Fittings-Accessories/Airline-Track-Filler-10FT
Maybe the Atlas will go on the wish list once I have a bunch of other mods done first.
So with a manual TC lockup switch, my NV271 and 4:10's, my lock-up crawl would be what?(is there some calculator I can enter these figures into?) A friend is going to investigate the lockup switch for me.
Thanks again for bringing this to my attention!!
Yes on the track covers(although a vacuum cleans them well, unless you get mud in there), ordering these soon, along with various d-ring stud fittings;
http://www.uscargocontrol.com/Ratchet-Straps-Tie-Downs/L-Track-Stud-Fittings-Accessories/Airline-Track-Filler-10FT