Victron Blue Smart Charger (Not solar)

[dreadlocks]

The Smart Orion TR is adjustable w/Bluetooth App AFIK, download the app and load up a demo unit and verify..

The non smart units are just 1 stage constant voltage output IIRC, you mentioned nothing about getting a smart unit in your original post.

 

[ADVdreams]

Ok thanks for confirming I can change parameters, that’s a relief!

I did miss the “smart” from my post (Orion Tr 12/12-30A dc-dc charger). I admit I have found victron’s product naming a bit confusing, the dc dc power supplies appear visually similar and can be used as simple chargers but aren’t smart or 3 stage CC/CV chargers. Anyway, we are definitely talking about the same unit.

Thanks for including the charging case study I have read some of his other testing. Interesting for sure, higher current CC charging leading to longer CV charging times is not intuitive. I don’t believe that I have observed this when varying CC charge rates, doubling the rate resulted in significantly faster charge times.

The ACR will be used for PSOC cycling (bring the battery up to 70-80%) and potentially pre-bulk charging. It seems reasonable that I can stuff more energy in the battery quicker using the higher current afforded by the ACR during a quick trip to town and then finished off with solar or on longer trips the Orion Tr Smart.

I understand there are compromises in the approach ... but given the opportunity to charge the battery for 20-30 min on a quick trip there doesn’t seem to be a benefit of a proper CC phase held at 30A vs the alternator. Would I design a system this way from scratch? No, I wouldn’t bother with the ACR. But it’s installed and there seems to be a use case for it ... although admittedly not a really strong one.

 

[ADVdreams]

@dreadlocks I installed the app and loaded a demo product, wow I had no idea the app would offer demo functionality gone are the days of trying to decipher a manual and specs. For example the engine/alternator detection voltage is totally variable between 8V and 17V. All charge parameters are adjustable. Very awesome unit ... if I had it to do over I would start with one of these for sure.

 

[Rando]

How do you plan on installing both the ACR and DC-DC? I am not sure how this would work, or really see any advantage in that.

 

[luthj]

I wouldn't do an ACR and a DC-DC. If you need boost/jump ability, a simple relay/solenoid is cheaper.

 

[ADVdreams]

... I installed the ACR several years ago at the time there wasnt a lot of dc-dc charging options readily available (it was a time pressure build) so I went with the ACR. There were lots of factors rolled up in this battery chemistry selection and so on. It was a compromise.

If I was starting from scratch I probably wouldn’t bother with the ACR .... but it’s in there already so the default plan is to leave it.

As far as detailed installation;
1) Connect the Orion to the alternator post on the ACR. This saves running a new feed from the ALT, the existing feed can easily handle 30A and is too large to terminate directly to the Orion.

2) Both the ACR and the Orion can be controlled via ignition input so a SPDT switch or relay on those inputs will prevent both units from charging at the same time.

So on a typical 12V relay, 12V ignition “on” wired to pin 30, ACR ignition signal input wired to pin 87a (NC) and Orion to 87 (NO). I could also do this with a simple switch rather than a relay however using a relay should enable me to use the ACR combine/separate switch. For example the Orion would be energized only when the ACR is in “separated” mode.

charge scenarios
a) 30 min road trip ACR charges house batt
b) 90 min road trip Orion charges house batt
c) solar ACR charges both banks (I know this isn’t ideal, for another discussion)

 

[dwh]

You should buy a multimeter with an amp clamp. Be careful to get one that does both AC and DC (most are AC only).

With real world testing, I suspect you'll find that there's not enough difference to justify overthinking it.

Sure, the ACR is already there. Handy for a backup, but you'll most likely end up just turning it off and forgetting about it until you actually need it.


And...30 min trip? 90? Neither one is really long enough to do much. Jack the battery up to surface charge voltage, maybe absorb a couple amps, but that's about it.

Theory; experiment; new theory.

 

[ADVdreams]

Agreed, my intent was >90min. A typical travel day is 4-6 hrs road time. Typical DOD is probably <20% (20Ah).

I like the clamp idea ... I’m going to check that out.

 

[john61ct]

There are DCDC chargers that have no ACR/VSR functionality

the target bank will simply keep draining the bank on the source side forever by default

the owner / system designer must wire **some** sort of switch to prevent this, if not IGN based (if alternator is the only source) the manual

or fit an ACR to control the DCDC.

 

[ADVdreams]

Orion Smart Tr and clamp meter (been on the fence about needing one of these for years) on order. Thanks to everyone for input.

 

[dreadlocks]

A permanently installed shunt on your house battery that measures current in and out is a worthwhile addon, I use a Victron BMV-712 and its chocked full of great information.. dunno how I got by so long w/out one.

 

[ADVdreams]

Again if I had things to do over .... I use a Smartgauge to monitor SOC of the house batt and voltage on the chassis.

Our first season we didn’t have a house batt, so the smart gauge was ideal for monitoring chassis batteries without a starting current sized shunt installed. It’s seems to do an ok job.

For example, when I charge on solar or mains it will reach 100% soc, but will never exceed high 80ish% when alternator charging.

eliminating the ML-ACR and self boost functionality would make a shunt reasonable.

 

[john61ct]

For lead banks in general no shunt based battery monitor beats the Merlin SmartGauge for SoC% accuracy anyway.

 

[dreadlocks]

yeah SmartGauge is ************ at its SOC% accuracy, but its also nice to know how much wattage your using, or how much charge your getting and how much energy you consume per day/hour/week/etc and in what conditions. as all those variables become known factors it becomes much easier to plan ahead with confidence.. that kinda stuff is super nice if you need to leave camp unattended to backpack/hike/bike/hunt for a while and you know with certainty how long everything will be fine w/out you for.

 

[ADVdreams]

Totally agree. Good to hear the smartgauge is highly regarded. my list of loads is short so I have a pretty solid handle on energy usage. I migrated epsar diesel space and engine heaters to the house battery. Other loads are a dometic chest fridge/freezer, led space lighting, cabin vent fan and device charging.

I will be putting that clamp meter to good use and if I scrap the ML-ACR will get a shunt based gauge for sure.

It might be worth noting that my specific engine is well known for expensive electrical module failure associated with low voltage condition starting ... this is the reason for my bias towards the ability to supplement the chassis batteries, should chassis light or radio etc be left on.