Did you have a look at this one?
http://http://belfield4x4.vpweb.co.uk/?prefix=www
http://http://belfield4x4.vpweb.co.uk/?prefix=www
Volkswagen Vanagon 4x4 Conversion.
- Thread starter vwhammer
- Start date
vwhammer
Adventurer
Well the link is not working for me but I think I know which van you are talking about if it is the green one with all the land rover bits.
To be honest I was a little disappointed when that van was posted on another forum.
For starters I was hopping to be the first solid axle swapped Vanagon (petty I know)
Secondly and more importantly I plan to sell a bolt-on Vanagon 4x4 conversion based on my design.
The less competition the better.
My van is the prototype if you will.
Once I sort mine out and verify that it works as intended I will have axle housings made to my specs and offer them up along with the bolt on suspension and steering parts.
Then people just need to track down the parts to bolt into the new housing, a transfer case and the Subaru drivetrain.
Once you have acquired all the parts 2 people should be able to strip the van and have a rolling solid axle Vanagon in 2-3 days.
Of course this does not count getting the engine wiring sorted and actually making it run.
Anyway I will cross that bridge when I get there.
I am not a fan of simply flipping the axle diffs as has been done in the conversion above.
As I think I mentioned, it introduces a weak point into the differentials and the Land Rover diffs are about the worst ones you can do that with.
They already have deflection issues that people have tried to solve with diff "pegging" and other such tomfoolery.
Anyway props to them for proving it works and can be done.
I hope to take it a notch higher.
To be honest I was a little disappointed when that van was posted on another forum.
For starters I was hopping to be the first solid axle swapped Vanagon (petty I know)
Secondly and more importantly I plan to sell a bolt-on Vanagon 4x4 conversion based on my design.
The less competition the better.
My van is the prototype if you will.
Once I sort mine out and verify that it works as intended I will have axle housings made to my specs and offer them up along with the bolt on suspension and steering parts.
Then people just need to track down the parts to bolt into the new housing, a transfer case and the Subaru drivetrain.
Once you have acquired all the parts 2 people should be able to strip the van and have a rolling solid axle Vanagon in 2-3 days.
Of course this does not count getting the engine wiring sorted and actually making it run.
Anyway I will cross that bridge when I get there.
I am not a fan of simply flipping the axle diffs as has been done in the conversion above.
As I think I mentioned, it introduces a weak point into the differentials and the Land Rover diffs are about the worst ones you can do that with.
They already have deflection issues that people have tried to solve with diff "pegging" and other such tomfoolery.
Anyway props to them for proving it works and can be done.
I hope to take it a notch higher.
luthj
Engineer In Residence
vwhammer
Adventurer
Today I tackled one of the things about which I have been most apprehensive; cutting and turning the knuckles to correct the pinion and subsequently the caster angle.
I took a pretty crude approach to the whole thing but lets be honest, solid axles are pretty crude in this day and age.
A lot of people fret about getting everything perfect but I can almost certainly assure you that the tolerances on this stuff are broad enough from the factory that you could probably get it in range by eye (exaggerating a little of course)
If you are actually taking the time to set up and measure you will be fine.
First I clamped some 2-3/4" exhaust clamps around the tube just inside the steering ball.
Of course my angler doo dad was a bit to wide to fit between the bolts once the nuts were installed so I had to weld on a chunk if 1 inch square on each saddle.
I then set my pinion angle to 5.5* which, as research has shown, is about the factory pinion angle.
After the pinion angle was established and the axle level, I adjusted my clamp near the knuckle until it read approximately zero.
This would be my reference for the rest of this process so I clamped it down tight.
I then turned the axle until the pinion angle read zero-ish (what I need for my build)
If everything worked as I had hoped my knuckle clamp should now read about 5.5*
Well that part did not work as well.
It is possible that with my crude set up that my clamps are not perpendicular to the housing but both sides were off by about .2 degrees so I decided that is was not enough really worry about.
From what I have heard the factory caster angle just needs to be somewhere between 3 and 5 degrees so I am not likely to notice .2 degrees if it's off by that much.
Then came time for cutting.
I hoped to borrow or rent a pipe cutter for this part but that really was not panning out so I bought one of these at the local home improvement store and got to it.
After cutting I punched a reference mark as another means of seeing how far I was turning.
With a 3 foot section of pipe slid down through the bearing races in the ball and a 3 lb hammer I started pounding and things started happening
First a little then a lot.
Eventually it loosened up enough that a brass rod and some hammer action in the bearing race was all that was needed to fine tune it.
I eventually got it to read zero again at the knuckle which should represent the factory caster angle.
I then repeated the process for the other side.
However after beating around the passenger side I noticed that the knuckle on the drivers side had slid out of the housing by more than 1/8 of an inch.
I tapped it back in with the brass rod but it was pretty apparent that I will have to wait on my axle housing alignment jig to really fine tune it and square everything up before I weld anything.
I also remembered while typing all of this up that I actually wanted to add a degree of positive caster just to make it a little more stable at highway speeds.
So I actually will adjust the balls again until my angle finder reads about 1* rather than zero.
This should put me somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 degrees total positive caster.
For anyone attempting something like this I can say it was not all that hard to get it cut and turn it.
However, finding a good way to hold the housing while you beat on it is the hard part.
I had issues there and simply had to keep adjusting and resetting the pinion angle and re-leveling the axle.
I also noted that on the drivers side I cut a little further out from the weld and probably cut a little too deep but it turned a lot easier.
the passenger side I cut real close to the weld and had to go back a few times with the grinder because it was not deep enough.
Drivers side
You can actually see where I cut into the knuckle a bit
Passenger side.
This one you can see where material broke because I was not completely though yet.
Now that I am about as far as I can go until I get my alignment jig, I needed to check another critical item so I can start the design work on my radius arms.
Will my tie rod actually clear the pinion now that I have closed the angle between the pinion and steering arms?
Well... Maybe...
It's real close and I can't actually get the tie rod in place with the ends on it because the rod hits the pinion before I can get it high enough to get the ends slid into their tapers on the steering arms.
I think I might be able to put the tie rod ends in place on the arms then screw them both into the rod.
This will be a hassle but it's either that or flip the taper and flip the rod ends to the bottom of the steering arm.
That all sounds well and good other than the fact that I would seriously interfere with my radius arm.
I would have to make it all funky shaped or the rod will have to be on the bottom of the radius arm which leaves it pretty vulnerable.
Naturally I would prefer not to do this.
There is also the option to build a custom rod that is lower in the pinion area and has some double adjusters on each end so the whole tube does not have to rotate to adjust the steering.
Like this.
In case anyone is confused as to how they work here is a link.
http://www.eadoffroad.com/synergy-3...12-13-3620-12-14-double-adjuster-tube-adapter
Either way there are some options.
I will know more tomorrow after I attempt to get the crusty tie rod apart that came on that wicked rusty front axle I purchased originally.
I need to wrap this up tomorrow so I can get everything I need to finish up the last of the designs for parts going to the laser cutter.
Slowly but surely...
I took a pretty crude approach to the whole thing but lets be honest, solid axles are pretty crude in this day and age.
A lot of people fret about getting everything perfect but I can almost certainly assure you that the tolerances on this stuff are broad enough from the factory that you could probably get it in range by eye (exaggerating a little of course)
If you are actually taking the time to set up and measure you will be fine.
First I clamped some 2-3/4" exhaust clamps around the tube just inside the steering ball.
Of course my angler doo dad was a bit to wide to fit between the bolts once the nuts were installed so I had to weld on a chunk if 1 inch square on each saddle.
I then set my pinion angle to 5.5* which, as research has shown, is about the factory pinion angle.
After the pinion angle was established and the axle level, I adjusted my clamp near the knuckle until it read approximately zero.
This would be my reference for the rest of this process so I clamped it down tight.
I then turned the axle until the pinion angle read zero-ish (what I need for my build)
If everything worked as I had hoped my knuckle clamp should now read about 5.5*
Well that part did not work as well.
It is possible that with my crude set up that my clamps are not perpendicular to the housing but both sides were off by about .2 degrees so I decided that is was not enough really worry about.
From what I have heard the factory caster angle just needs to be somewhere between 3 and 5 degrees so I am not likely to notice .2 degrees if it's off by that much.
Then came time for cutting.
I hoped to borrow or rent a pipe cutter for this part but that really was not panning out so I bought one of these at the local home improvement store and got to it.
After cutting I punched a reference mark as another means of seeing how far I was turning.
With a 3 foot section of pipe slid down through the bearing races in the ball and a 3 lb hammer I started pounding and things started happening
First a little then a lot.
Eventually it loosened up enough that a brass rod and some hammer action in the bearing race was all that was needed to fine tune it.
I eventually got it to read zero again at the knuckle which should represent the factory caster angle.
I then repeated the process for the other side.
However after beating around the passenger side I noticed that the knuckle on the drivers side had slid out of the housing by more than 1/8 of an inch.
I tapped it back in with the brass rod but it was pretty apparent that I will have to wait on my axle housing alignment jig to really fine tune it and square everything up before I weld anything.
I also remembered while typing all of this up that I actually wanted to add a degree of positive caster just to make it a little more stable at highway speeds.
So I actually will adjust the balls again until my angle finder reads about 1* rather than zero.
This should put me somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 degrees total positive caster.
For anyone attempting something like this I can say it was not all that hard to get it cut and turn it.
However, finding a good way to hold the housing while you beat on it is the hard part.
I had issues there and simply had to keep adjusting and resetting the pinion angle and re-leveling the axle.
I also noted that on the drivers side I cut a little further out from the weld and probably cut a little too deep but it turned a lot easier.
the passenger side I cut real close to the weld and had to go back a few times with the grinder because it was not deep enough.
Drivers side
You can actually see where I cut into the knuckle a bit
Passenger side.
This one you can see where material broke because I was not completely though yet.
Now that I am about as far as I can go until I get my alignment jig, I needed to check another critical item so I can start the design work on my radius arms.
Will my tie rod actually clear the pinion now that I have closed the angle between the pinion and steering arms?
Well... Maybe...
It's real close and I can't actually get the tie rod in place with the ends on it because the rod hits the pinion before I can get it high enough to get the ends slid into their tapers on the steering arms.
I think I might be able to put the tie rod ends in place on the arms then screw them both into the rod.
This will be a hassle but it's either that or flip the taper and flip the rod ends to the bottom of the steering arm.
That all sounds well and good other than the fact that I would seriously interfere with my radius arm.
I would have to make it all funky shaped or the rod will have to be on the bottom of the radius arm which leaves it pretty vulnerable.
Naturally I would prefer not to do this.
There is also the option to build a custom rod that is lower in the pinion area and has some double adjusters on each end so the whole tube does not have to rotate to adjust the steering.
Like this.
In case anyone is confused as to how they work here is a link.
http://www.eadoffroad.com/synergy-3...12-13-3620-12-14-double-adjuster-tube-adapter
Either way there are some options.
I will know more tomorrow after I attempt to get the crusty tie rod apart that came on that wicked rusty front axle I purchased originally.
I need to wrap this up tomorrow so I can get everything I need to finish up the last of the designs for parts going to the laser cutter.
Slowly but surely...
Last edited:
RMP&O
Expedition Leader
Don't burn it in with a 120v machine, use a bigger machine. Your set up looks good to me. I have done a c&t on an 80 axle, not that big of a deal and makes a huge difference. My truck was tested a lot after the c&t, 3,500 mile trip to Baja and several trips to the sand dunes which is hard on a truck. No issues.
Cheers
Cheers
Petrolburner
Explorer
I'm impressed.
vwhammer
Adventurer
I had a little spare time today to tinker in the garage.
I had to spend some of that time fixing my bench vise that I nearly ripped off the table trying to turn the passenger side knuckle and for some odd reason I broke the two screws that hold one of jaws in the vice so I had to tear it apart to extract the broken bits and put the jaw back on.
Anyway after fiddling with that I wanted to try to sort this tie rod thing so I can move forward with that.
With a little fussing I managed to get the tie rod mounted in both arms and it clearly is not going to work as is.
It interferes enough that it is actually keeping the diff from going all the way in.
So I think I will whip me up a new tie rod that is lower in the pinion area and has double adjusters on each end so I can keep the rod out of the area where I hope for my radius arm to be.
I will likely save that for a later time.
For now I will just get the measurements that I need to carry on with radius arm design.
I took a bunch of measurements from the transfer case so I can draw up mounts for that.
There is still a fair bit of stuff to remove from the under side of the van that will either be relocated, rerouted or replaced entirely.
I thought I would get the cross members out of the way that were interfering with the front axle.
This included removing the steering rack.
These part are likely a substantial part of the front suspension/frame support system so I will eventually have to come up with a replacement that clears the axle and steering box that will be mounted under there somewhere.
Perhaps a big power steering box-panhard bar-cross member structure would be the bees knees.
I believe more drawings and laser cut parts are in order.
This week will probably be pretty slow going until some parts start showing up.
I'm going to do the dirty work and lay on my back getting covered in gunk while I remove and relocate all the necessary stuff under the van to make way for the sub-frame and transfer case.
Other than that I will likely be at the computer drawing up some things.
Moving right along.
I had to spend some of that time fixing my bench vise that I nearly ripped off the table trying to turn the passenger side knuckle and for some odd reason I broke the two screws that hold one of jaws in the vice so I had to tear it apart to extract the broken bits and put the jaw back on.
Anyway after fiddling with that I wanted to try to sort this tie rod thing so I can move forward with that.
With a little fussing I managed to get the tie rod mounted in both arms and it clearly is not going to work as is.
It interferes enough that it is actually keeping the diff from going all the way in.
So I think I will whip me up a new tie rod that is lower in the pinion area and has double adjusters on each end so I can keep the rod out of the area where I hope for my radius arm to be.
I will likely save that for a later time.
For now I will just get the measurements that I need to carry on with radius arm design.
I took a bunch of measurements from the transfer case so I can draw up mounts for that.
There is still a fair bit of stuff to remove from the under side of the van that will either be relocated, rerouted or replaced entirely.
I thought I would get the cross members out of the way that were interfering with the front axle.
This included removing the steering rack.
These part are likely a substantial part of the front suspension/frame support system so I will eventually have to come up with a replacement that clears the axle and steering box that will be mounted under there somewhere.
Perhaps a big power steering box-panhard bar-cross member structure would be the bees knees.
I believe more drawings and laser cut parts are in order.
This week will probably be pretty slow going until some parts start showing up.
I'm going to do the dirty work and lay on my back getting covered in gunk while I remove and relocate all the necessary stuff under the van to make way for the sub-frame and transfer case.
Other than that I will likely be at the computer drawing up some things.
Moving right along.
Last edited:
SonnyApril
New member
Look forward to watching this build and seeing the kit for sale. I would much rather have this setup under my Syncro.
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
Good to see you are making it through your cut and turn...
For the tie rod clearance. What if you made a solid tie rod, stuck one of those double adjusters on one side, and then milled a flat in the rod right where you needed the clearance under the diff?
If the material used for the rod was of good quality, and appropriate diameter, I wouldn't worry about the reduction in strength because of the flat.
For the tie rod clearance. What if you made a solid tie rod, stuck one of those double adjusters on one side, and then milled a flat in the rod right where you needed the clearance under the diff?
If the material used for the rod was of good quality, and appropriate diameter, I wouldn't worry about the reduction in strength because of the flat.
Colin_Bacon
New member
Have you considered using a Subaru diesel boxer engine, it seems like it would be the perfect middle ground between the Subaru gas engine and the 1.8tdi. also the main seller of those engines in North America sells them for Vanagon swaps. The engines are quite pricey but that's the only negative of them I can think of.
Here's the link https://www.boxeer.com
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Here's the link https://www.boxeer.com
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
vwhammer
Adventurer
This would likely be the simplest path forward but I would like to explore having a profile cut from some flat stock that would be keyed so it all interlocked together and would be welded.
This would result in a 1.5 inch square tie rod with a wall thickness of my choosing that would have the step in the middle to clear the pinion.
Of course this means I would have to buy one of those adjusters for both ends if I want everything to be nice and centered.
vwhammer
Adventurer
1.4:1 would put me slightly over my ideal final drive but might be nice if I go a little bigger in the future.
I think once I get a diesel in this thing my 4:10 axle ratio and the 1.2 high range should be just the thing for mileage and power.
vwhammer
Adventurer
That would be my engine of choice but , as you mentioned, the price puts it way out of my reach for the time being.
I feel like I could tweek a TDI a bit to get the HP and torque numbers I am looking for and have a much more common and cost effective engine set up.