Weight Savings of Synthetic over Wire on the Warn M12000

[Rezarf <><]

I am installing a Warn M12000 onto an ARB bumper this week and was wondering what kind of weight savings I could expect if I replaced the steel cable with synthetic? I hate to toss out a perfectly good unused 3/8" steel cable however, saving the fuel mileage and weight on the front could save $$$ over the long haul.

Also, from those with experience, what brand length and diameter would you replace it with?

I almost went with an 8274 and custom bumper for since it has so much rope and its so freakin' fast... but I digress.

Since everyone likes a pic

 

[C-Fish]

Rope should be about ~35lbs lighter than cable...Warn M12000 comes with 3/8x125" of steel.

Any good name brand rope will be fine...

 

[RedF]

I doubt you'll see any mileage improvement. Make sure that winch is rated to be used with synthetic rope, as some aren't!

 

[polar bear]

I just did this, used master pull 7/16" basic and it feels like nothing next to the cable.

 

[LR Max]

I put synthetic on my M12k. I didn't notice any weight difference or how it drove.

However it was SIGNIFICANTLY easier to handle vs. the stupid cable.

Yes these winches are slower than an 8274. But I have literally picked up a Discovery that fell off the trail...and put it back on the trail. Then he was pointed in the wrong direction...so I straightened him out. Just...dragged the discovery until its nose was pointing in the correct direction. The M12k is a problem solver.

 

[dp7197]

I doubt you'll see any mileage improvement. Make sure that winch is rated to be used with synthetic rope, as some aren't!

Very true.

 

[LR Max]

Meh. I've had synthetic on my M12k since 2002. No issues. Doubt it was ever rated for it. Works fine.

The drum just doesn't get hot...which is awesome.

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

What you're going to experience is a huge safety improvement.

I have an 8274, and I think speed on winches is highly overrated unless you're in some sort of competition or stuck below high tide line. Winching is a process fraught with possible hazards, and slowing it down doesn't hurt.

 

[NYresQ]

I replaced the cable with Amsteel line. I gained an extra 10' of length, an extra 5,000lbs of strength rating and shed a measured 40lbs off my bumper. Size for size synthetic will be significantly stronger than steel cable and will normally pack tigher on the drum which will allow you to either use the same size and get more on the drum, or use the next size up and give yourself a larger safety margin with a much heavier rated rope. It can be spliced with a bic pen and a piece of masking tape and if broken can be joined back together and reused in the field in about 5 minutes.

I replaced the 7/16' on my M15000 with 7/16 amsteel and put an extra 10' on it. I probably could have added another 10, but I also didnt want to have a situation where if I was doing an off center pull the drum would fill up too fast.

Go with any of the dyneema 12 strand synthetic lines and you will thank us the first time you pull it off the drum. its lighter, softer (no steel slices from the little wires sticking out), easier to clean and repairable in the field if you should ever break a line. And if that break ever happens under tension, its not going to whip back and take someones leg off and break your windshield...

No reason NOT to go with synthetic. Amsteel blue, Viking and Masterpull are the bigger names in sythetic lines, any of them will make a good winch better.

 

[LR Max]

What you're going to experience is a huge safety improvement.

I have an 8274, and I think speed on winches is highly overrated unless you're in some sort of competition or stuck below high tide line. Winching is a process fraught with possible hazards, and slowing it down doesn't hurt.

Agreed. HUGE safety and convenience increase. When you are SOL trying to un-SOL yourself, increasing safety factors and making life easier is what you want. When winching, you want things to go smoothly and safely because when it goes sideways, it goes REALLY sideways.

Also agree with taking your time. Rigging correctly and making sure everything is set before you start mashing buttons. Synthetic helps with this. Back when I had steel cable, pulling it was a pain (especially uphill). Then the stupid thing unraveled on the drum and was a giant mess and a pain. So you are standing there, trying not to get your hand stuck in the fairlead, stacking the cable. This sucks. Synthetic prevents this because it won't unravel on the drum and if it gets all crossed up, who cares.

 

[Strizzo]

if you swap to synthetic, the biggest factor on how much your winchline weighs will be what you put on the end of it. all 97' of my 3/8" synthetic line weighed maybe a pound, while the hook on the end weighs a couple pounds or more. just going off the difference between shipping weights for identical weights with steel and synthetic lines, 100' of 3/8" makes the winch about 40lbs overall heavier, which is usually hanging fairly far out ahead of the front tires.

 

[dp7197]

"After the test, we unspooled the rope and discovered a dent in the drum near the gear side. Once again, we contacted Warn. They informed us that their winch drums are not intended to be used with synthetic rope when the load is in excess of 9,500 pounds. A quick perusal of the synthetic rope product page on Warn’s website indicates that only their own rope is approved for use with their winches. It has a high-temperature urethane coating and a Nomex sheath along the length of the first drum wrap to provide additional protection from drum brake heat. Additionally, the page states that the rope is for winches with a 9,500 pound pull rating or less. We have been aware of a phenomenon with synthetic rope that creates a constrictive effect under extreme tension, which can damage winch drums. The surface properties of the rope (very slick) act differently on the drum surface than a steel rope which has some degree of friction and a less pliable cross-section."

http://expeditionportal.com/tug-of-war-the-ultimate-12v-winch-test/

Heat is not the only factor when using synthetic rope.

Warn's 12k# ZEON winch was just released with synthetic rope. Maybe they increased the drum wall thickness?

 

[Dalko43]

Not to start a synthetic vs cable argument, but is there any pro associated with running a cable winch over a synthetic one?

I live in the north east, so salt, snow, rain, and all combinations thereof will always be splashing against my 4runner. My rig is rarely, if ever parked inside, so it's constantly exposed to the elements. Will a cable line last longer than a synthetic one in that kind of environment?

I do like the safety advantages that a synthetic line enjoys over the cable, and I know the synthetic is lighter (though I agree with others who say that the 35lb savings wont really make much of a difference mpg wise).

 

[pugslyyy]

Not to start a synthetic vs cable argument, but is there any pro associated with running a cable winch over a synthetic one?

I live in the north east, so salt, snow, rain, and all combinations thereof will always be splashing against my 4runner. My rig is rarely, if ever parked inside, so it's constantly exposed to the elements. Will a cable line last longer than a synthetic one in that kind of environment?

I do like the safety advantages that a synthetic line enjoys over the cable, and I know the synthetic is lighter (though I agree with others who say that the 35lb savings wont really make much of a difference mpg wise).

Professional recovery folks (i.e. tow trucks) use steel because it holds up to daily abuse by their drivers better than synthetic, and replacement is much cheaper. Our current landlord owns a towing company and he tried synthetic but found it wasn't right for him.

For almost any enthusiast synthetic is going to come out on top - and the only things that are going to damage it long term are abrasion and UV. I've long used synthetic on all my trucks and the only time I had an issue was pure user error (mine).

 

[Dalko43]

Professional recovery folks (i.e. tow trucks) use steel because it holds up to daily abuse by their drivers better than synthetic, and replacement is much cheaper. Our current landlord owns a towing company and he tried synthetic but found it wasn't right for him.

For almost any enthusiast synthetic is going to come out on top - and the only things that are going to damage it long term are abrasion and UV. I've long used synthetic on all my trucks and the only time I had an issue was pure user error (mine).

Thanks for the feedback! Have you ever experienced or heard of any issues with synthetic lines getting worn out or degrading from exposure to road salt, or prolonged exposure to moisture (think rainfall or melting snow)? Are there any maintenance requirements to dry out the synthetic line periodically?