What´s the problem with the Jeep
- Thread starter Born2bwild1
- Start date
Born2bwild1
New member
Excelent article
Born2bwild1
New member
Some Photos
Well guys thank you ALL, I learn so so much. Here in México also do not have to much options, Jeep in this case is the cheapest. You can find some very very good LR (Discoverys) but the after market parts are WAAAAAYYYY to expensive here. We are a 3rd world country and we pay 40% more for everything!!!
I will keep all your opinions in mind and maybe I will try to import a 70´s Land Cruiser from Nicaragua (we have a kind of NAFTA agreement there) but for now I will just enjoy what I have and I will try the limits of my 2006 Rubicon named Laika 1 (in honor of the first alive being and space expeditioner Laika the Dog).
See photos attached
Well guys thank you ALL, I learn so so much. Here in México also do not have to much options, Jeep in this case is the cheapest. You can find some very very good LR (Discoverys) but the after market parts are WAAAAAYYYY to expensive here. We are a 3rd world country and we pay 40% more for everything!!!
I will keep all your opinions in mind and maybe I will try to import a 70´s Land Cruiser from Nicaragua (we have a kind of NAFTA agreement there) but for now I will just enjoy what I have and I will try the limits of my 2006 Rubicon named Laika 1 (in honor of the first alive being and space expeditioner Laika the Dog).
See photos attached
Attachments
JCMatthews
Tour Guide
Doesn't gas weigh about the same as water? Water is 8 Lbs per gallon. That would be 40Lbs + container.
stickerboy111
New member
While I share you enthusiasm for the Jeep Jk, as I am a proud owner of a Jk myself, I would never even think of bringing one to a place like Africa as an Overland Rig.
I myself have lived in Tanzania and have driven Land Rovers etc.. The issue is reliabilty and part availability. You can go just about any place in Africa and find LR and Toy parts with out any issue. Now try doing that with a Jeep, not a hope. Yes they are capable, and now with the 4dr they have a lot more cargo capacity, but the real issue is reliability.
My Rubicon has already seen a new engine at 50,000 km (failed oil pump) Its been in the shop I can't count how many times for warranty issues. Tranny cooler lines leaking, U-joints, electrical issues and the list goes on...
That said, I wouldn't trade my Jeep for anything. I love it. I just wouldn't take it out of North America or Europe.
Come on now. LR reliability is a long term source of humor here and even longer term in Africa. The Jeep easily stacks up with LR on reliability.
Parts availability, that is a legitimate but waning issue outside of NA.
BTW, the oldest in service vehicle I ever saw in Africa was a jeep. WWII era and still running in 2006.
If I was in Africa making a choice now, it would be a new Toyota 5/4 ton V8 turbo diesel pick-up, in a crew cab, long bed configuration if available. New lifted suspension. Put an auxiliary tank in it and be done with fuel cans. PTO option, but electric winch. Plenty of room and weight carrying capacity.
Here I think a JK makes a very viable, if not perhaps the best choice. And far and away the best choice if you select a new AEV suspension, the 5.7 hemi and an auxiliary tank. Add a trailer with an auxiliary tank, generator, RTT, etc and never come back. The AEV package increases center clearance and tire clearance but also about doubles payload and towing capacity. Counter to typical commentary, the JK brakes are fine with the additional weight and a fairly heavy trailer. With the trailer, leave the rear seat in and bring along three of your friends or your bud and the dogs.
I predict that with the aging of suitable LR's we will see JK's quickly replace them within the overland crowd, despite what I think and my experience tells me is pretty strong anti American bias even here in the US.
JPK
I don't think reliability (of LRs) has ever been an issue - that has passed into the realm of folklore! A friend used to go everywhere in his series 3 with a spare driveshaft and some other components and a full toolkit - it was often necessary to use them as well!
As far as Jeep is concerned, with the advent of the 4-door JK, the capacity problem has been addressed, although I think a proper hardtop roof would be very sensible! I doubt - from my own experience, if fuel mileage is an issue either - my current Jeep - a diesel KJ, is far more economical than a Series LR or Defender and as economical as a Disco and a friend with a diesel JK has found the same.
The main issue is always that of availability of parts and vehicles. I have - over more years than I care to think, been all over Europe and Scandinavia, and a fair bit of Africa - both Saharan and sub-Saharan. Jeep dealerships are relatively few - even in Europe, and parts availability is poor and expensive. It is often cheaper to buy a part from the US and have it sent over (paying the relevant import etc duties) than it is to buy the part here. Aftermarket accessories (incl OME suspension) are reasonably available, but not cheap. LR parts in England and Europe on the other hand are everywhere and reasonably cheap.
Outside of Europe, in the "undeveloped nations", I have actually seen a few WWII Willys which keep going because they are simple and easy to repair by a bush mechanic working with very little by way of tools or resources. The same can be said for Series LRs, and Toyo 40s. For newer vehicles however - Toyota (Landcruiser and pickups), Nissan (Patrol and pickups) and LR have it. They have dealers in the major cities of most of Africa that I've seen, and so the familiarity with those marques is far greater, and the spares availability is much greater. This may change however, if Jeep are successful in marketing the J8 to the various NGOs and Governments that they are pitching to.
Jeeps are pretty popular in Australia ( i recall reading that Oz is the second largest market for Jeep outside the US) and they are used there for overlanding in very difficult conditions with no more than the usual problems that might be experienced with a vehicle of any marque.
As far as Jeep is concerned, with the advent of the 4-door JK, the capacity problem has been addressed, although I think a proper hardtop roof would be very sensible! I doubt - from my own experience, if fuel mileage is an issue either - my current Jeep - a diesel KJ, is far more economical than a Series LR or Defender and as economical as a Disco and a friend with a diesel JK has found the same.
The main issue is always that of availability of parts and vehicles. I have - over more years than I care to think, been all over Europe and Scandinavia, and a fair bit of Africa - both Saharan and sub-Saharan. Jeep dealerships are relatively few - even in Europe, and parts availability is poor and expensive. It is often cheaper to buy a part from the US and have it sent over (paying the relevant import etc duties) than it is to buy the part here. Aftermarket accessories (incl OME suspension) are reasonably available, but not cheap. LR parts in England and Europe on the other hand are everywhere and reasonably cheap.
Outside of Europe, in the "undeveloped nations", I have actually seen a few WWII Willys which keep going because they are simple and easy to repair by a bush mechanic working with very little by way of tools or resources. The same can be said for Series LRs, and Toyo 40s. For newer vehicles however - Toyota (Landcruiser and pickups), Nissan (Patrol and pickups) and LR have it. They have dealers in the major cities of most of Africa that I've seen, and so the familiarity with those marques is far greater, and the spares availability is much greater. This may change however, if Jeep are successful in marketing the J8 to the various NGOs and Governments that they are pitching to.
Jeeps are pretty popular in Australia ( i recall reading that Oz is the second largest market for Jeep outside the US) and they are used there for overlanding in very difficult conditions with no more than the usual problems that might be experienced with a vehicle of any marque.
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MOAK
Adventurer
vw tdi
into my 04 Rubicon. As far as space goes, We have plenty of room for 15 extra gallons of gas, 25 gallons of water, all our camping gear & enough other supplies to be out for 10 days, with room for the grandkids. If I lived outside the country, and or were a world traveler? FJ 55 w/diesel !!
Well said, and since I will probably never take my jeep away from North America, I'm in excellent shape for parts being available. Diesel? I have a KJ with the CRD and love it. In a couple of years I'll be swapping the VW TDI
into my 04 Rubicon. As far as space goes, We have plenty of room for 15 extra gallons of gas, 25 gallons of water, all our camping gear & enough other supplies to be out for 10 days, with room for the grandkids. If I lived outside the country, and or were a world traveler? FJ 55 w/diesel !!
"I don't think reliability (of LRs) has ever been an issue - that has passed into the realm of folklore! A friend used to go everywhere in his series 3 with a spare driveshaft and some other components and a full toolkit - it was often necessary to use them as well!"
That is unfortunately a hoot. The reason that Toyota has all but replaced LR in Africa is because of the misserable reliability of the LR. "The Land Rover discovered Africa, but the Land Cruiser conquered it."
Some of the still germain jokes:
1. If there is no oil leak in a landrover, there's no oil.
2. They say there only two things made by man that are visible from space ... the great wall of China and the gaps between the Defender's body panels!
3. Landrover - the best 4x4xfar. On tar.
4. Not many people know that Land Rover attempted to market a computer. Why did they stop? They could not find a way to get it to leak oil!
5. A Land Rover doesn´t leak oil, it marks it´s territory.
6. Did you hear about the man whose Land Rover didn't leak oil? The factory took it back and worked on it until it did.
7. Did you hear the one about the guy that peeked into a Land Rover and asked the owner "How can you tell one switch from another at night? They all look the same. " - "He replied, "It does not matter which one you use, nothing happens!"
8. The Lucas motto: "Get home before dark."
9. Lucas is the patent holder for the short circuit.
10. Lucas - Inventor of the first intermittent wiper.
11. Lucas - Inventor of the self-dimming headlamp.
12. The three position Lucas switch - Dim, Flicker and Off.
13. The Original Anti-Theft Device - Lucas Electrics.
14. Lucas is an acronym for Loose Unsoldered Connections and Splices.
15. Lucas systems actually uses AC current; it just has a random frequency.
16. "I have had a Lucas pacemaker for years and have never had any trou..."
17. If Lucas made guns, wars would not start.
18. A friend of mine told everybody he never had any electric problems with his Lucas equipment. Today he lives in the countryside, in a large manor with lots of friendly servants around him an an occasional ice cold shower... (insane asylum for those who don't get it.)
19. Back in the 70's, Lucas decided to diversify its product line and began manufacturing vacuum cleaners. It was the only product they offered which did not suck.
20. Q: Why do the British drink warm beer? A: Because Lucas makes their refrigerators
21. Alexander Graham Bell invented the Telephone. Thomas Edison invented the Light Bulb. Joseph Lucas invented the Short Circuit.
22. Recommended procedure before taking on a repair of Lucas equipment: Check the position of the stars, kill a chicken and walk three times clockwise around your car chanting: "Oh mighty Prince of Darkness protect your unworthy servant..
23. Land Rover claims that 47% of all vehicles ever built are still on the road, what hasn't been mentioned is that they are stationary on the road!
24. The story I heard is that 80% of Land Rovers are still on the road..... The rest has at least made it home!
25. Lucas products, the corporate name is not "G-D D-MN LUCAS!"
26. A funny one but not on topic: What is the difference between a land rover and a porcupine? The porcupine has the pricks on the outside.
27. The Landy would be a good vehicle with only two modifications! Strip all the electrics and drive train out, and replace it with the drive train and electrics from a Toyota!
28. All Land Rovers are like women - They leak when you don't want them to, moan on long journey's, embarrass you in front of friends and spend more money than you ever expected once you've committed yourself to one.
29. Police officers shake your hand when they issue you a speeding ticket.
30. Why do most Defenders have jerry cans and gas bottles fitted? So that the driver can make tea and coffee while waiting for a tow.
31. Landrovers have the best fuel consumption of all 4x4's. That's because they are always being towed by something else.
32. After extensive research by automotive industry investigation teams, it has been discovered that the name LAND ROVER is actually an acronym: LAND-ROVER: Loud Agonizing Noisy Drive - Rattles On Virtually Every Road
33. Why do LR's always drive in convoy? They are playing 'Who's the weakest Link.'
34. The employees at Lucas refer to Joseph Lucas as "The Prince of Darkness."
35. The Bible says that God "invented" the light; that must be the proof that Joseph Lucas came before God, because he "invented" the darkness...
And here is more:
And from the Yahoo homepage earlier this yea:
"Autos to Avoid:"
Land Rover LR4
Last year’s LR3 is redesigned for 2010 to provide greater on-road performance and more intuitive controls. However, auto writers point out that the LR4's lackluster city/highway fuel economy (12/17 mpg), Land Rover's poor reputation for reliability and high sticker price significantly detract from its overall value. And while it’s a superior off-road performer, it’s highly unlikely that anyone would take an SUV this expensive and luxurious over rough terrain. The LR4 ranks near the bottom of the Luxury Midsize SUV class.
And more:
(Yahoo - CNN) "...As a result, British carmaker Land Rover had the highest proportion of complaints relative to the number of cars it sold. The company received 0.6% of the total complaints in the database, while its sales amounted to only 0.1% of all new cars sold in the United States..."
From a Proffessional Hunter who hunts throughout Africa, but mainly in Tanzania: "Despite my loving my Jeep, the problem here in Africa, esp the more remote parts of Africa is spares availability." Tanzania is not remote, at least to this fellow, who I know a bit.
JPK
That is unfortunately a hoot. The reason that Toyota has all but replaced LR in Africa is because of the misserable reliability of the LR. "The Land Rover discovered Africa, but the Land Cruiser conquered it."
Some of the still germain jokes:
1. If there is no oil leak in a landrover, there's no oil.
2. They say there only two things made by man that are visible from space ... the great wall of China and the gaps between the Defender's body panels!
3. Landrover - the best 4x4xfar. On tar.
4. Not many people know that Land Rover attempted to market a computer. Why did they stop? They could not find a way to get it to leak oil!
5. A Land Rover doesn´t leak oil, it marks it´s territory.
6. Did you hear about the man whose Land Rover didn't leak oil? The factory took it back and worked on it until it did.
7. Did you hear the one about the guy that peeked into a Land Rover and asked the owner "How can you tell one switch from another at night? They all look the same. " - "He replied, "It does not matter which one you use, nothing happens!"
8. The Lucas motto: "Get home before dark."
9. Lucas is the patent holder for the short circuit.
10. Lucas - Inventor of the first intermittent wiper.
11. Lucas - Inventor of the self-dimming headlamp.
12. The three position Lucas switch - Dim, Flicker and Off.
13. The Original Anti-Theft Device - Lucas Electrics.
14. Lucas is an acronym for Loose Unsoldered Connections and Splices.
15. Lucas systems actually uses AC current; it just has a random frequency.
16. "I have had a Lucas pacemaker for years and have never had any trou..."
17. If Lucas made guns, wars would not start.
18. A friend of mine told everybody he never had any electric problems with his Lucas equipment. Today he lives in the countryside, in a large manor with lots of friendly servants around him an an occasional ice cold shower... (insane asylum for those who don't get it.)
19. Back in the 70's, Lucas decided to diversify its product line and began manufacturing vacuum cleaners. It was the only product they offered which did not suck.
20. Q: Why do the British drink warm beer? A: Because Lucas makes their refrigerators
21. Alexander Graham Bell invented the Telephone. Thomas Edison invented the Light Bulb. Joseph Lucas invented the Short Circuit.
22. Recommended procedure before taking on a repair of Lucas equipment: Check the position of the stars, kill a chicken and walk three times clockwise around your car chanting: "Oh mighty Prince of Darkness protect your unworthy servant..
23. Land Rover claims that 47% of all vehicles ever built are still on the road, what hasn't been mentioned is that they are stationary on the road!
24. The story I heard is that 80% of Land Rovers are still on the road..... The rest has at least made it home!
25. Lucas products, the corporate name is not "G-D D-MN LUCAS!"
26. A funny one but not on topic: What is the difference between a land rover and a porcupine? The porcupine has the pricks on the outside.
27. The Landy would be a good vehicle with only two modifications! Strip all the electrics and drive train out, and replace it with the drive train and electrics from a Toyota!
28. All Land Rovers are like women - They leak when you don't want them to, moan on long journey's, embarrass you in front of friends and spend more money than you ever expected once you've committed yourself to one.
29. Police officers shake your hand when they issue you a speeding ticket.
30. Why do most Defenders have jerry cans and gas bottles fitted? So that the driver can make tea and coffee while waiting for a tow.
31. Landrovers have the best fuel consumption of all 4x4's. That's because they are always being towed by something else.
32. After extensive research by automotive industry investigation teams, it has been discovered that the name LAND ROVER is actually an acronym: LAND-ROVER: Loud Agonizing Noisy Drive - Rattles On Virtually Every Road
33. Why do LR's always drive in convoy? They are playing 'Who's the weakest Link.'
34. The employees at Lucas refer to Joseph Lucas as "The Prince of Darkness."
35. The Bible says that God "invented" the light; that must be the proof that Joseph Lucas came before God, because he "invented" the darkness...
And here is more:
And from the Yahoo homepage earlier this yea:
"Autos to Avoid:"
Land Rover LR4
Last year’s LR3 is redesigned for 2010 to provide greater on-road performance and more intuitive controls. However, auto writers point out that the LR4's lackluster city/highway fuel economy (12/17 mpg), Land Rover's poor reputation for reliability and high sticker price significantly detract from its overall value. And while it’s a superior off-road performer, it’s highly unlikely that anyone would take an SUV this expensive and luxurious over rough terrain. The LR4 ranks near the bottom of the Luxury Midsize SUV class.
And more:
(Yahoo - CNN) "...As a result, British carmaker Land Rover had the highest proportion of complaints relative to the number of cars it sold. The company received 0.6% of the total complaints in the database, while its sales amounted to only 0.1% of all new cars sold in the United States..."
From a Proffessional Hunter who hunts throughout Africa, but mainly in Tanzania: "Despite my loving my Jeep, the problem here in Africa, esp the more remote parts of Africa is spares availability." Tanzania is not remote, at least to this fellow, who I know a bit.
JPK
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jeepdreamer
Expedition Leader
4.0 woes...
Funny, I happen to feel that the 91+ 4.0 is one of very few amazing engines today. Simple enough to work on with little more than basic hand tools, respectable power for a small vehicle, decent fuel numbers, and nearly bomb proof and idiot proof.
Does the RMS leak? Yes. At about 100-150k miles. Fix it with a 10 dollar seal and an afternoon of your time and keep going.
The factory "header" will crack. It was a very poor design. Ok, so yo invest some $ in a good quality upgrade and never do it again. Whoopie.
Electrical/wiring-simple and reliable
Fuel management/induction-Bosch system is near flawless
Exhaust-As mentioned, poor from the factory. Fix it aftermarket and never another issue.
Efficency-I consistantly got between 19 and 22 in my 91XJ that was given to me FREE! Fixed the breaks and kept on truckin'!
Dependability-IMHO even the 1st Gen 4.0 was not horrible but like most things it suffered from French fingers touching it. But with the advent of the Bosch system the entire package becane far more streamlined and worked even better.
Durability-Hmm...My last XJ (the Free one) I was given with about 180k on the odo...When I turned the keys over to the "X'' as something to get her around in it was over 265k. She has been driving it mercilessly for over 3 years now and the only repairs the entire time for me were the RMS, a new brake MC (and pads/shoes), several basic tune ups and oil changes. The header was cracked when I got it and it is still cracked today. It is a little loud but I could care less. And for durability the engine has been run several times by the "X" prior to me fixing the RMS completely with out oil for a week at a time before she would ask me to check it (see why shes the x?).
I believe Jeep made a huge error in killing off the 4.0. It is an engine that needs little love, a few replaced factory designed brainfarts, and will reliably carry you anywhere on earth.
Funny, I happen to feel that the 91+ 4.0 is one of very few amazing engines today. Simple enough to work on with little more than basic hand tools, respectable power for a small vehicle, decent fuel numbers, and nearly bomb proof and idiot proof.
Does the RMS leak? Yes. At about 100-150k miles. Fix it with a 10 dollar seal and an afternoon of your time and keep going.
The factory "header" will crack. It was a very poor design. Ok, so yo invest some $ in a good quality upgrade and never do it again. Whoopie.
Electrical/wiring-simple and reliable
Fuel management/induction-Bosch system is near flawless
Exhaust-As mentioned, poor from the factory. Fix it aftermarket and never another issue.
Efficency-I consistantly got between 19 and 22 in my 91XJ that was given to me FREE! Fixed the breaks and kept on truckin'!
Dependability-IMHO even the 1st Gen 4.0 was not horrible but like most things it suffered from French fingers touching it. But with the advent of the Bosch system the entire package becane far more streamlined and worked even better.
Durability-Hmm...My last XJ (the Free one) I was given with about 180k on the odo...When I turned the keys over to the "X'' as something to get her around in it was over 265k. She has been driving it mercilessly for over 3 years now and the only repairs the entire time for me were the RMS, a new brake MC (and pads/shoes), several basic tune ups and oil changes. The header was cracked when I got it and it is still cracked today. It is a little loud but I could care less. And for durability the engine has been run several times by the "X" prior to me fixing the RMS completely with out oil for a week at a time before she would ask me to check it (see why shes the x?).
I believe Jeep made a huge error in killing off the 4.0. It is an engine that needs little love, a few replaced factory designed brainfarts, and will reliably carry you anywhere on earth.
BigAl
Expedition Leader
Have to agree, i love how simple the 91+ 4.0s are to work on. Just the right amount of power for a properly geared YJ/TJ/XJ. Nice low end for off road too. My buddy swapped a 360 into his YJ and had to run at 3-4K rpms to get anywhere.
edit: He switched to a cherocar 4.0 and auto tranny and couldn't be happier.