what about rei

[Sawyer]

I so want that.... Especially with the pop out gatlin gun!

 

[jaxs1984]

I'm all for erosion of the land , how do you think we got the grand canyon ? :smiley_drive:

 

[2025 deleted member]

Well said.

I think the overwhelming majority of folks here on ExPo would agree with this simple proposition: 1) No new roads in wilderness areas, 2) Leave existing roads in place and maintain access for "off-road" vehicles 3) "Off road" vehicle travel to be limited to those existing roads except in designated "off-road" parks or certain unique areas (thinking about places like Pismo dunes, Glamis, etc). Certainly there is room for compromise around this position based on the specifics of a given area, but as a general starting point I'm completely in agreement with it.

The problem here is that I don't believe for a minute that the REI's and Patagonia's of the world or the organizations they support such as the Sierra Club or SUWA would agree to that proposition. Not even close. We continue to see road closures take place in our local area on an ongoing basis. Many existing roads are up for closure right now in the Big Bear area, some of which would eliminate access to some favorite camping spots that people have been using for decades, if not longer.

The long term trend is pretty clear: we continue to set more and more land aside as wilderness resulting in more and more road closures. In the real world we don't see maintenance of the status quo. In my opinion I don't think the environmental movement will ever be satisfied, there will always be another precious and unique area to close down. They will continue to use the Endangered Species Act as a tool to shut down more and more areas to human travel. There are some 1000 acres of prime hiking territory in the local mountains here in SoCal that have been closed to all human entry since 2005 supposedly to protect a frog species. Note, I'm not talking about off road travel, I am talking about closed to all human entry.

When you chose to paint me as someone who thinks the world should be "wheel-accessible" you are sadly off base.

 

[frans]

The issue of access is consistently muddied by individuals who don't care one way or the other about anyone but themselves. For example,
With the off road driving group, there are very good organizations that promote responsible driving and the 'tread lightly' concept, and then there is the huge group of offroaders who really don't think about any of that stuff.
I don't think there is any easy answer. The only solution that comes to my mind is self policing, but that has not happened.
So as a result, roads keep getting closed. A shame really, but what other options are there?
There is so much emotion involved, and arrogance, and self entitlement attitudes it seems hopeless.
A great personal example is: Some time ago (on this forum) I questioned someone who, while on an 'expedition' climbed up on a relic and removed an artifact. Ostensibly for taking a picture.
So here is a member of this community altering the environment that they are driving through. Now you could say that it was done in a responsible way etc etc. But the fact remains that they did something that can be construed as damaging. When I asked why, I was slammed very hard and told to mind my own business.

So what happened? The net result is me going away thinking that even this responsible group promotes activity that is damaging to our history and environment. So now take the clueless person (read rabid environmentalist) who effects law changes and road closures. They see this and only have their ideals confirmed.
I think that we need to self police, and always, I mean always, be ready to answer to our actions in a responsible way.

 

[AmericaOverland]

REI is a great place to shop, they have everything, then I go home and order off the internet. I love the looks I get when I pull up in my fitted Land Cruiser. %$#* REI

We have a LOT of stuff, however, we DON'T have the classic cotton safari clothing or cargo pants made from cotton. We have divested ourselves of cotton in the trail clothing lines to a great degree, which I'm not happy about, since I find it more comfortable to wear cotton or natural fibers in the heat than synthetic fibers. I'm having to go elsewhere at full price to find cotton clothing for the woods. I'm ambivalent about the politics that goes on in the conservation area, but it pays the bills. I don't know where else I could work in retail in the area. Someday, I will be in a position to say more about this.

 

[AmericaOverland]

Add these companies to the list:
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Aerojet

<snip>

Then open a business and hire me to come work for you. It's past time to turn things around.