What do you think about this non-street legal “Jeep” clone?

[Martinjmpr]

I wonder if that argument has been used successfully against makers of traditional SxSs that have been granted street legal status.

Successfully? Probably not. SXS are significantly different from road-legal vehicles. They have smaller tires and wheels and are built completely differently from street-legal automobiles.

No reasonable person would ever mistake a SXS for a real car or truck.

The Mahindra Jeep, AKA Roxor, however, is based on a street-legal (in India) vehicle. Merely pulling the turn signals and windshield off doesn't transform it into a side-by-side.

A reasonable person, seeing a Roxor, would assume it is a Jeep, since that's what it is based on.

It would be like if someone made a straight-up copy of a '57 Chevy and tried to sell it as a "track only" car so they wouldn't have to meet current safety or emissions standards. It wouldn't be long before buyers would start fudging the paperwork to get them plated.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc. The manufacturer doesn't get to evade the law regarding importation of motor vehicles by slapping a "not for on-road use" label on it. At least not for long.

My guess is that any "success" the Roxor has in terms of sales will be its undoing. As soon as it becomes common knowledge that people are using these with illegal or questionable plates, Mahindra is going to come under fire to either bring the vehicle up to road-legal specs (which would be cost-prohibitive) or to just stop selling it in the US. And I can't believe it's much of a money maker for Mahindra, I think they probably make a lot more selling tractors.

So the bottom line is, if you want one, get it now. My guess is that within a year or two, they will no longer be available.

 

[shade]

Successfully? Probably not. SXS are significantly different from road-legal vehicles. They have smaller tires and wheels and are built completely differently from street-legal automobiles.

No reasonable person would ever mistake a SXS for a real car or truck.

The Mahindra Jeep, AKA Roxor, however, is based on a street-legal (in India) vehicle. Merely pulling the turn signals and windshield off doesn't transform it into a side-by-side.

A reasonable person, seeing a Roxor, would assume it is a Jeep, since that's what it is based on.

It would be like if someone made a straight-up copy of a '57 Chevy and tried to sell it as a "track only" car so they wouldn't have to meet current safety or emissions standards. It wouldn't be long before buyers would start fudging the paperwork to get them plated.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc. The manufacturer doesn't get to evade the law regarding importation of motor vehicles by slapping a "not for on-road use" label on it. At least not for long.

My guess is that any "success" the Roxor has in terms of sales will be its undoing. As soon as it becomes common knowledge that people are using these with illegal or questionable plates, Mahindra is going to come under fire to either bring the vehicle up to road-legal specs (which would be cost-prohibitive) or to just stop selling it in the US. And I can't believe it's much of a money maker for Mahindra, I think they probably make a lot more selling tractors.

So the bottom line is, if you want one, get it now. My guess is that within a year or two, they will no longer be available.

I agree.

Like I said, Mahindra is very clearly promoting the Roxor as a SxS: "A Side by Side Unlike Any Other - Why settle for a toy when you can tackle the trails in a side by side built with steel and powered by diesel? From muddy trails to dusty worksites to hidden hunting spots, nothing gets you through it like a rugged ROXOR. "

Mahindra calls it an OHV SxS, but on the road, it's being used as a Jeep Wrangler; I doubt it'll be allowed to maintain that duality for long.

I guess I just don't see the problem. Some of these UTVs are pushing the limits as it is and a CJ7 clone isn't any worse. I'd think from a safety standpoint at least a Mahindra is based on a vehicle that at one time met FMVSS highway rules when Jeep made them rather than just meeting what is necessary for a low speed vehicle.

View attachment 550288

Τhese Oreion Reepers seem awful similar in size to the Roxor.

View attachment 550289

View attachment 550290

What about people getting an old Suzuki LJ10 or those micro trucks they use in Japan street legal by calling them UTVs?

View attachment 550293
View attachment 550291

Seems who's getting out of joint are the regulators and the manufacturers who can't stand people buying and using vehicles they actually want rather than what they are told they should be driving.

Maybe so. Otoh, many safety regulations exist for very practical reasons.

The examples you posted are small potatoes, but if the Roxor catches on, it's got the Jeep magic to make a stink on multiple fronts. That notoriety may be what earns it enough unwanted attention that FCA, Honda, Polaris, etc. push it into the ditch.

I still think getting affordable insurance for road use could quickly become an issue, too. Denying coverage or pricing it out of reason could both be done by an insurer that wants nothing to do with the Roxor.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Seems who's getting out of joint are the regulators and the manufacturers who can't stand people buying and using vehicles they actually want rather than what they are told they should be driving.

Well, that's a completely separate question. Whether you like it or not, vehicles that are imported to the US for road use have to meet certain standards in terms of safety, emissions, lighting, etc. Whether those standards should be changed is a political question, not a legal one.

Our legislators could change the law tomorrow and allow the import of all manner of vehicles, but they don't because they know that people generally support these laws. Again, individuals may disagree but as a whole, most people support them.

But the regulations are what they are and should be applied to all vehicles in that classification whether we personally agree with those laws or not. I think Mahindra is trying to push the limits of legality by trying to hide behind the fig leaf of saying their Roxor Jeep is "not intended for on-road use" when it's clear that many, if not most, of the people who buy them are going to use them exactly the way they would use a road-legal Jeep, which violates both the spirit and the letter of the law.

In essence, Mahindra is trying to obtain an unfair competitive advantage by ignoring the law its competitors (basically FCA) have to obey.

As I said above, as long as sales remain low, they can probably continue. But this is one of those things that will be killed by its own success. If it really catches on and people start buying them and driving them on the street in large numbers, the hammer's going to come down hard on Mahindra.

 

[Tokarev]

Assuming it is illegal to run these on paved roads is incorrect. There is no "illegal" about it as long as state regs are met, proper insurance coverage is purchased and the vehicle is properly licensed. Roxor is no different than any other ATV in this regard.

Each state is different. AZ, for example, allows ATVs to be registered for street use after a few things are met. Vehicles must have mirrors, lights, a horn and DOT tires. They also need an illuminated license plate bracket. MI allows vehicles such as the Roxor to be titled and registered as a "street rod" once the vehicle has a few things added such as turn signals and a windshield. Once so titled, the vehicle is assigned a new VIN by the state. Some states do not allow ATVs to be licensed for street use under any circumstances regardless of what equipment is installed after the fact.




Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[shade]

Assuming it is illegal to run these on paved roads is incorrect. There is no "illegal" about it as long as state regs are met, proper insurance coverage is purchased and the vehicle is properly licensed. Roxor is no different than any other ATV in this regard.

Each state is different. AZ, for example, allows ATVs to be registered for street use after a few things are met. Vehicles must have mirrors, lights, a horn and DOT tires. They also need an illuminated license plate bracket. MI allows vehicles such as the Roxor to be titled and registered as a "street rod" once the vehicle has a few things added such as turn signals and a windshield. Once so titled, the vehicle is assigned a new VIN by the state. Some states do not allow ATVs to be licensed for street use under any circumstances regardless of what equipment is installed after the fact.




Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Actually, you defined how a Roxor could be illegally operated on paved roads. Don't meet the required conditions, and it's illegal to operate it on the street.

While it is currently possible for one to be legally operated in some states, that could be changed with some lobbying by FCA & ATV manufacturers. All they'd have to do is sway a few key states to exclude the Roxor from ATV status - weight would be an easy metric. If a Roxor was banned from on-road use in Utah, Colorado, and California, sales would take a big hit.

Also, insurers can do whatever they want WRT offering coverage. No industry is more in tune with risk, and insuring an out-of-date Jeep that's pretending to be a SxS for on-road use sounds pretty risky to me. Add in Martin's product liability concerns, and that could be enough for State Farm to deny coverage.

 

[stevec]

As someone who owns two LJ10's, I can tell you they ARE street legal, even in California, because they were street legal when sold new. No restrictions on driving them on the freeway, although with a top speed of 50mph, you'll never see me driving mine on the freeway.

What about people getting an old Suzuki LJ10 or those micro trucks they use in Japan street legal by calling them UTVs?

 

[Bayou Boy]

Assuming it is illegal to run these on paved roads is incorrect. There is no "illegal" about it as long as state regs are met, proper insurance coverage is purchased and the vehicle is properly licensed. Roxor is no different than any other ATV in this regard.

For the VAST majority of the the USA this is not the case. ATVs can not be driven on roads in the VAST majority of states no matter what. The minor exceptions made in a handful of states due to high agricultural use of ATVs does not make these any more legal than an ATV.

 

[Tokarev]

A new grill to get FCA off Mahindra's back? I assume the new square ROPS is also hopefully going to change the silhouette for the same purpose?

Otherwise it looks like a new gear ratio to better make use of the 2.5L engine at lower speeds.

2020 Mahindra Roxor to get updated looks | Autocar India

Refreshed Roxor gets new front styling inspired by Toyota Land Cruiser.

www.autocarindia.com

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[shade]

A new grill to get FCA off Mahindra's back? I assume the new square ROPS is also hopefully going to change the silhouette for the same purpose?

Otherwise it looks like a new gear ratio to better make use of the 2.5L engine at lower speeds.

2020 Mahindra Roxor to get updated looks | Autocar India

Refreshed Roxor gets new front styling inspired by Toyota Land Cruiser.

www.autocarindia.com

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Like I said, with Jeep it's all about the grill.

 

[WVI]

I like them...not that I have a use for it.
I live in the country and a neighbor bought one...they ride it around the roads out here like folks do ATV/s and golf carts.
I think for the cost, you could buy a used licensable 4x4.

 

[givemethewillys]

I like the new grill, and I've really considered getting one. I have the real thing though ( a 1957 cj5), so I have no use for a Roxor. That drivetrain is pretty tempting though! I'm definitely planning on adding Roxor parts to modernize my Jeep, such as the swinging pedals, maybe steering parts and linkages.

Im glad they're in the market, and I think they have a place. Farmers and ranchers were swearing by jeeps in the willys era for all sorts of chores; those are the roles that this machine will fill. It's a completely different demographic than the wrangler crowd.

 

[JaSAn]

Questions:

How much latitude does a state have in licensing a vehicle for highway use that does not me federal emissions or safety standards?

Can such a vehicle be driven across state lines legally?

 

[Tokarev]

Questions:

How much latitude does a state have in licensing a vehicle for highway use that does not me federal emissions or safety standards?

Can such a vehicle be driven across state lines legally?

States vary. Check with your DMV.

Same answer to your second question but in this case I'd say check with DMV in neighboring states.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[Tokarev]

You anti-Mahindra fellows may soon get your wish:

Jeep, FCA Win Interim Court Victory Against Mahindra Roxor | Automobile - Automobile Magazine

Despite a decade-old agreement allowing Mahindra to the use a Jeep-like grille on its vehicles, FCA and Jeep are fighting to keep it off Mahindra vehicles.

www.automobilemag.com

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[AbleGuy]

Don’t be giving up yet if you’re interested in this rig. The Mahindra Roxor is turning out to be something like a hard to kill zombie. Or to paraphrase what Aaarnold once said, ”It’ll be back (soon).”

”Mahindra already has an updated 2020 model planned with an all-new front end design. According to AutocarIndia,Mahindra is planning to roll out the new model soon, likely hoping that it will solve its problems with [the Jeep infringement lawsuit]. The updated model is also said to include a more aggressive rear end ratio to help get more power to the ground.”

from: https://www.tfloffroad.com/2019/11/jeep-closer-to-stopping-us-roxor-sales-redesigned-model-coming/

Mahindra is a big company, the world’s largest manufacturer of tractors and size wise is becoming a serious entrant in the ORV market.