What is the greatest overland vehicle ever sold new in the US?

[4x4junkie]

You mentioned cars and then went on to throw out two examples, one a manual 80's Accord versus a modern automatic Civic and then your BII. I merely pointed out the MPG is more than just transmissions, its other things as well. Another would be the FJC which has the manual at only at 2 mpg disadvantage. Hardly the 4+ you were referencing in an earlier post. If the transfer cases were the same, I bet they wouldve been neck and neck.

My point with the emissions equipment is to disprove the claim that older cars were more efficient than newer ones. Increased emissions equipment does reduce mpg but in trade off for having a cleaner, less polluting burn.

As for an advanced 'overland in the US' truck, whats wrong with a modern automatic? Why is everyone so afraid of them? Do they have sensors? Absolutely. Are they better than the manual transmissions available right now? Absolutely. They handle more power, are better at selecting the right gear for efficiency and have more gears to choose from. The US is not Africa where you might not be able to get to a fully prepped shop. There was just a story about the 'loneliest place' which really was not that far from a paved road where you could get a tow to any number of dealerships for a repair. Yes, an automatic will probably need a rebuild before a manual transmission will but thats not going to be for at least 100k miles from new. Not to mention that an automatic delivers better control and the slip is actually beneficial off road (since we are talking about 'overland travel', this might not matter). With so much time spent on hard pack or tarmac, where does the supposed 'toughness' of a manual actually come into play?

CR tested the Scion xD at 34 MPG (MT) and 28 MPG (AT) mixed driving (and is just one example). However that's here nor there as I don't think you'd get very far down a rugged dirt trail in a xD.
Less miles traveled per gallon burned = less fuel efficient (funny I never would've guessed anyone would ever question this concept :Wow1: )

But anyway... While you are taking your automatic trans to your fully-prepped (to take your $$$) shop to be rebuilt at ~100K (seems like 150K should be more typical, but whatever), I'll be out having some fun exploring a trail (or out on the road) rowing my gears probably well past 250K and beyond.

Cheers.

 

[toylandcruiser]

I guess the frames were made by Dana, huh?

I guess so


Molon Labe

 

[ZMagic97]

I for one am shocked that so few people have mentioned the XJ Cherokee. I am not claiming it is the greatest, but it really should be in the running, definitely ahead of the JK. It has a proven record of reliability, affordable parts, and relative ease of repair.
It is big enough, small enough, powerful enough, has excellent visibility, and is good on fuel.

They were also used extensively by government, police, fisheries, game wardens, meter readers and taxis.

Personally I would say it is the best. Loved my XJ...wish I never sold it. She wasn't the pretties looking thing; some paint fade and dents) but was clean inside and ran forever. There's a lot of truth to this license plate.... (Even ran on the freeway for ~100 miles with the cat cloagged about 80%....)

Sold her with just under 200,000 miles...she had a lot more to give too.

 

[Viggen]

CR tested the Scion xD at 34 MPG (MT) and 28 MPG (AT) mixed driving (and is just one example). However that's here nor there as I don't think you'd get very far down a rugged dirt trail in a xD.
Less miles traveled per gallon burned = less fuel efficient (funny I never would've guessed anyone would ever question this concept :Wow1: )

Not necessarily. Did CR, which hates cars by the way, mention that the automatic is down a gear when compared to the manual trans? Common thing that they forget to mention. Did they also forget to mention that the gear ratios are completely different between auto and manual, including final drive? In econoboxes, the auto is always the left over 4 speed while the manual gets a 5 speed. Its been that way for decades making old comparisons apples to oranges. In fact, Scion/ Toyota is the only company still sticking 4 speed autos into their cheap econoboxes. Even Subaru has finally dropped that ancient 4EAT. Everyone else has moved on to 5 and 6 speeds, bringing them to the same, or even better, mpg numbers as their manual transmission offerings. Less miles driven does not mean less efficient burn. There are other factors involved. Your xD example for instance is a perfect example. Are you trying to say that the same exact motor is somehow burning fuel less efficiently because it is hooked to an automatic? Really? Come on, you cannot be serious.

You take your 250k manual and I am confident that I will have an auto trans that will get up to that amount without any problems. The new autos in Fords have a 150k mile service interval...

 

[cchoc]

1997 Land Rover D90 was my favorite, until I got run off the road near Kanab and totalled it. My 2007 FJ Cruiser that I bought as a replacement is great vehicle too.

 

[Outback]

This is the best Overland vehicle EVER built.........:smiley_drive:

 

[4x4junkie]

Really? Come on, you cannot be serious.

.

********

That's exactly what my thoughts have been about you.

We could go on about this forever... You wanted an example, I gave you one (here's another: Honda Fit- 33 (MT), 30 (AT). has a 5-speed auto). But I s'pose you're gonna have a whole bunch of excuses why it too doesn't conform to this ideal you must think all automatic transmissions are.
You can take your beloved automatic with all it's electronical wizardry and be happy with it. We'll stick with our manuals.

Now can we let this thread get back on topic?

 

[Viggen]

I guess so

Who has been making the second gen frames? Theyve been rusting out big time as well...

 

[Plannerman]

I wouldn't say that manuals are more fuel efficient these days, it is slowly becoming quite the opposite.

I had two 2nd gen tacomas that were identically equipped sans transmission. The 2009 had a 6-speed manual, the 2010 a 5-speed auto. I tracked fuel efficiency over 35000+ miles on each truck. The manual was about 10-15% less efficient. Largely, I believe this was because the auto had a better overdrive ratio (the manual cruised a few RPMs higher than the auto at 70 mph, for instance).


Sent via fat thumb

 

[Toyotero]

Personally, I liked my 1988 first get 4Runner more than any other vehicle I've ever owned.
The Taco is a close second.

This probably is partially due to my ability to travel more while I owned the 4R.

 

[4x4junkie]

I had two 2nd gen tacomas that were identically equipped sans transmission. The 2009 had a 6-speed manual, the 2010 a 5-speed auto. I tracked fuel efficiency over 35000+ miles on each truck. The manual was about 10-15% less efficient. Largely, I believe this was because the auto had a better overdrive ratio (the manual cruised a few RPMs higher than the auto at 70 mph, for instance).


Sent via fat thumb

Appreciate the report.

Did you observe the same in around-town driving also? Or was it mostly on the highway you made the observation?

 

[28.]

CR tested the Scion xD at 34 MPG (MT) and 28 MPG (AT) mixed driving (and is just one example). However that's here nor there as I don't think you'd get very far down a rugged dirt trail in a xD.
Less miles traveled per gallon burned = less fuel efficient (funny I never would've guessed anyone would ever question this concept :Wow1: )

But anyway... While you are taking your automatic trans to your fully-prepped (to take your $$$) shop to be rebuilt at ~100K (seems like 150K should be more typical, but whatever), I'll be out having some fun exploring a trail (or out on the road) rowing my gears probably well past 250K and beyond.

Cheers.

The automatic on my 4runner has 177k. I also used to prefer the manuals over the automatics but it really is just personal preference. In all honesty I rarely hear of someone's automatic failing anymore.

sent from your moms Iphone using tapatalk

 

[86tuning]

The whole auto vs manual debate had pros and cons to both.

Main benefit of the manual trans would be simplicity and strength. Even with a bit of water contamination, the innards will hold up quite well to that and other neglect and abuse. Not much going on inside one of these bad boys.

The automatic? Lots going on, and even a small amount of water ingress can destroy the clutch packs and stuff inside. Plus side would be ease of use, ease of crawling over obstacles (unless you have a Unimog with 2000:1 crawl ratio).

Not much mileage penalty on modern units, if any at all. I know that most of the 6mt Toyota products actually get worse mileage than their 6at counterparts. IS250, Tacoma, etc.

Me, I just pay for fuel and drive my 80 everywhere. The lack of range due to poor fuel economy sucks, so an aux fuel tank is part of my pipe dream.

 

[Green96D1]

Well I will say that as far as the Best Vehicle it really depends on a person's taste and what they have in mind for a expedition vehicle as there are many variations to choose from. To alot of people The solid axle toyota's the taco and the hundy will score high due to tough build,beefy axles and unmatched reliability.
To some the full Size trucks from the big 3 are the best due to good out of the box strength,diesel engines, heavy duty axles,load capacity,easy to find parts and reliability is reasonable good
To some the Jeeps are the best because they have a huge following,are quite capable for the factory,a load of aftermarket support and can be built on a budget.
To some the G-class is the greatest as it is a unique vehicle that is built beyond the normal standards of a 4x4. It's has that mercedes "tank like feel" and is not a vehicle that is seen on a trail everyday which adds to the coolness factor of the truck
and to the rest of us the crazy bunch The Land Rover is the best. Because it has a aura about it that spells "adventure" The Series,D90/D110, Disco1 and RRC are considered some of the greatest platforms due to rugged build, very solid frames ,the history that surrounds the vehicles and the alloy body that can stand the test of time. Although they don't have the strongest axles, nor are they the most reliable vehicles in theory they have enough good points about them that can outshine other vehicles of similar build and vintage. with that all being said The Disco1 is the greatest vehicle to me. Although I would love a 70 series.

 

[Tinker]

I'd like to add the current-gen Subaru Outback and Forester to the list. Australians would probably agree they make amazing overlanders, and they are built in they are built in the US. The Outback with CVT gets 29 mpg highway, and the Forester gets 32mpg highway. Both have the ground clearance of a Jeep Grand Cherokee, but they have a lower center of mass with the boxer engines. Both have a low range "gear" on the CVT, called X-Mode on the Forester, and both have symmetrical AWD, which I'm sure everyone has seen tested on YouTube against every other AWD system on the market. Incredibly safe vehicles, and the manufacturer actually wants you to work on your own car by making everything easily accessible.