What Toyota truck for Box Camper build?

[abiker]

Hey all,

I want to build a small and light camper for family use, preferably on a Toyota platform. It would mostly be something small to get outside in more often, not something we'd wheel hard or take overseas. I have experience with TIG welding, composite layups, CAD and FEA, so the 'box' part of the build seems a fun project. I probably have many weaknesses in this project, but one that stands out to me is picking which vehicle to start with. This week's inspiration is the Double Cab Maltec below:


It's obviously not cheap, hard to get in the US, probably had the frame extended, but very capable and reliable. I think I need to scale back from something that ambitious.

I've been the owner of at T100 and 1st Gen Tundra for about 17 years combined - 14 years with a Flippac. Both were Access Cabs. I've done a lot of my own work on them, but I'm not an expert, I just follow the manual... slowly. Here's a photo of the current house on wheels.



I will have many problems down the road and anticipate making a build thread, but today's problem is the truck. Here are the highlights of what I'm thinking:

1. 2009-2015 Double Cab 6.5' 2nd Gen Tacoma
   1. Pros: Great aftermarket support, full "double cab"
   2. Cons: Payload. Probably not great as a tow vehicle
2. 2006 Double Cab 6.5' 1st Gen Tundra
   1. Pros: Familiar, good cab size, full roll down rear window may be a future pass thru
   2. Cons: Old - already 16 years old, finding a suitable used vehicle.
3. ~2015 Double Cab 6.5' Bed 2.5 Gen Tundra
   1. Pros: Newer, will probably run forever
   2. Cons: Definitely concerned about Cab Size w/ 2 kids, dog, etc. Payload? Pricey in current market.
4. 2022 Crew Max 6.5' Bed Tundra
   1. Pros: Biggest Cab + Biggest Bed, Comfy, quiet, modern, capable.
   2. Cons: Crazy expensive for a 'project vehicle', probably would also be a daily driver for that reason.

I am probably leaning toward #2 or #4 because of the cab size with the long bed, but didn't want to remove the Tacoma or 2nd gen Tundra. I know cost between these options is pretty wildly different, but I've saved for a while to buy a new Tundra now - I just keeping asking myself if I'd rather buy a small commuter car (Nissan Leaf, etc) AND a project truck instead of 'just' buying a new Tundra that I'll be uncomfortable taking a hole saw to.

I'm open to lots of advice, but I will caveat - I'm really hesitant about getting the 'default' trucks for this kind of build - like a Ram 2500. I keep telling myself that I'd rather build something smaller and lighter for the benefit of having a smaller, lighter, better gas mileage truck. My flavor of camper is really much more on the side of Westfalia, Maltec, Trip and Fish, European style truck builds, old school Chinook, rather than EarthRoamer, or other stuff that size. Landcruisers and similar also seem neat, but a cab chop and frame extension is more than I want to take on.

What am I missing? What would you folks do? Thanks!

 

[EMR714]

The Tacoma’s payload is pitiful and these campers add up. As an owner of a second gen Tacoma, I would take this off the list based on this alone.

 

[highwest]

Did you see Overland Under Budget’s Tacoma build on YouTube? That thing is pretty rad, but you really need to be disciplined with the weight on those small trucks. It’s too bad too because the size is so nice.

 

[bkg]

NGL... when I read the thread title, I thought this was going to be about selecting a bed to make into a camper trailer.

and I kind of got excited. Always wanted to build a 1st gen tacoma bed trailer... no idea why... i have no real use for one...

 

[dstefan]

The 2nd gen Access Cab Tacos are not 6.5’, they’re 6’. Agree with the other comment on payload for a camper. Sold my 09 Taco for that very reason.

 

[ITTOG]

I would only consider 3 or 4 sure to payload.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[tacollie]

Option 3. Payload will be low and mpgs will be crap but you'll have a bunch of money left over for your build and gas.

 

[XJLI]

You'll get the same fuel mileage in a modern 3/4 ton as you're going to get in any V8 Tundra, or loaded to the gills Tacoma. That being said, I think the crew cab 1st gen Tundra is peak truck for a "lifestyle" truck. Current F150 2.7EB is a close #2.

 

[abiker]

Did you see Overland Under Budget’s Tacoma build on YouTube?

Yep, very cool. He also has a walk around with another guy in SLO named Mark that built a full camper, but I think he’s 800lb over GVWR. But yep, the intent is probably something lighter still than Overland Under Budget.

Option 3. Payload will be low and mpgs will be crap but you'll have a bunch of money left over for your build and gas.

I was assuming option 2 (06 Tundra) would do that better. 2015-17s are still like 30k+. An 06 would be more like 15k. Plus as best I can tell, the Double Cab 06 has a 1635 payload. The 2017 payload is still 1630 on the web but 1400ish on the door sticker. I have to assume the 06 is basically the same payload, but the 2.5 gen will definitely carry it better - brakes, motor, drivetrain all seem beefier. I do get that budget is personal - but the 2.5gen with no big can/big bed option seemed less good compared to how much more it would cost. It does seem like aftermarket support for the 2.5g tundra has gotten lots better, maybe that’s an avenue to research

 

[abiker]

You'll get the same fuel mileage in a modern 3/4 ton as you're going to get in any V8 Tundra, or loaded to the gills Tacoma. That being said, I think the crew cab 1st gen Tundra is peak truck for a "lifestyle" truck. Current F150 2.7EB is a close #2.

Yep, especially those 3. Maybe the 5.7 would be worst but it would actually be able to do the speed limit over mountain passes.

So I have a buddy with a newer Ford 2.7 that’s in the shop a lot… do you have any other ‘sweet spot’ rigs? I would have guessed the 3.5 Ford would be better and definitely comes in bigcab, 6.5’ bed… but that’s another one (like Ram HDs) where it seems like they are still expensive for a newer used model, or the older models (like 10-12 rams) aren’t great reliability.

 

[tacollie]

I was assuming option 2 (06 Tundra) would do that better. 2015-17s are still like 30k+. An 06 would be more like 15k. Plus as best I can tell, the Double Cab 06 has a 1635 payload. The 2017 payload is still 1630 on the web but 1400ish on the door sticker. I have to assume the 06 is basically the same payload, but the 2.5 gen will definitely carry it better - brakes, motor, drivetrain all seem beefier. I do get that budget is personal - but the 2.5gen with no big can/big bed option seemed less good compared to how much more it would cost. It does seem like aftermarket support for the 2.5g tundra has gotten lots better, maybe that’s an avenue to research

My experience with the first gen Tundra was a 2000. I know the later ones got a little bump in horsepower, an extra gear, and bigger brakes. Mine had tiny brakes and a 4-speed. It was a good truck but it wasn't nearly as beefy as my 2008. Our 08 was a double cab limited on the doorsticker red 1, 437 lbs. My buddies 14' limited is almost 200lbs less but he does have the 38 gallon tank.

For me the 5.7, bigger rear end, bigger brakes, and larger fuel tank are huge bonuses to the second gen. It also has a better turning radius. The 14+ probably has better aftermarket support than the first gen.

Or maybe I just miss my second gen and I'm giving you bad advice ?. I should have kept it for day-to-day stuff.

 

[abiker]

My experience with the first gen Tundra was a 2000. I know the later ones got a little bump in horsepower, an extra gear, and bigger brakes. Mine had tiny brakes and a 4-speed. It was a good truck but it wasn't nearly as beefy as my 2008. Our 08 was a double cab limited on the doorsticker red 1, 437 lbs. My buddies 14' limited is almost 200lbs less but he does have the 38 gallon tank.

For me the 5.7, bigger rear end, bigger brakes, and larger fuel tank are huge bonuses to the second gen. It also has a better turning radius. The 14+ probably has better aftermarket support than the first gen.

Or maybe I just miss my second gen and I'm giving you bad advice ?. I should have kept it for day-to-day stuff.

Yep, my 03 is probably the same, 4 gears. It really struggles to tow well but seems pretty decent on it's own - even with a flippac, a full load, 33"s and a small lift it seems capable enough and I've gotten 20 mpg on trips to the mountains in CO at 10k feet with mostly highway but definitely with 4wd high clearance destinations. So 'just swapping' to an 06 sounds easy and cheap.

Did you have cab size concerns with the 2nd gen Double Cab? We sat in the back and it felt fine, but friends with kids think it would run out of space quickly. If there was a crewmax 6.5' bed, I'd go with a '14+ for sure.

As a Side Note I did meet with the Owner of Tommy Campers USA and toured his rig - he had a Crew Max Tundra that he put a 6.5' or 7' Tommy Camper on. So it's possible to get the size on a 2nd gen, but that seems like a compromised way to get there. That's a lot of weight on the back, and he was way over GVWR if I remember correctly.

On all these models it seems typical to push right up to GVWR, not to stay at 90%... though you'd have less problems if you accomplished that. The big bonus on a '22 is it seems like the frame, brakes, etc. are all sized for the hybrid - they de-rate the GVWR on the non-hybrids by about 300lb, but I would assume that's more about center of mass, etc. and not pure capability... but I think this thread is more about which platform than to go over GVWR or not. In contrast, the 2nd gens only had the 7100 or 7200 GVWR. For completeness, my 03 Access Cab is 6300 GVWR and the Double Cab 06 is 6600lb, if I have that right.

 

[BajaSurfRig]

You should consider a 2011+ 6.2 Super Duty. Can get a rear locker stock and they are proven and quite reliable. My 2014 loaded down with a FWC Grandby and enough water for two weeks gets 11-13 MPG. I overloaded a few first Gen Tacomas way way over GVWR for many years. They did surprisingly well from a reliability standpoint but got the same MPG as my super duty, were very slow and didn’t handle the weight of a camper very well.

 

[abiker]

Well that's funny timing:

Principles of Overlanding :: The Toyota Tundra for Overlanding

overlandjournal.com

Found it useful, still have questions. I think the biggest takeaway is that, due to the Tundra sharing a lot with Land Cruiser platforms, 1st and 2nd gen have excellent reliability that may not have been the case with some of the 3.0 / 3.4 engines of the 90s. A well maintained 1st gen with 100k miles could easily get another 200k miles... which would be 20+ years of use for me. Same with the 2nd gen. So 1/2 way through that 20 year life... which platform would I be happier with?

My additional research seems to point out the 1st Gen has better payload than 2nd gen, and 3rd Gen is better than sticker (provided you do things like an SR5, manual seats, no pano roof, etc.). Example: https://www.tundras.com/threads/payload-stickers.99329/page-15#post-2686307 . So when it comes down to pure capability (cab leg room, ground clearance, payload) the first gen looks really good.

 

[abiker]

You should consider a 2011+ 6.2 Super Duty. Can get a rear locker stock and they are proven and quite reliable. My 2014 loaded down with a FWC Grandby and enough water for two weeks gets 11-13 MPG. I overloaded a few first Gen Tacomas way way over GVWR for many years. They did surprisingly well from a reliability standpoint but got the same MPG as my super duty, were very slow and didn’t handle the weight of a camper very well.

My understanding of the American full size market is that you really get the 300k+ mile reliability only with the diesels - like Ford's 7.3 or 6.7, Cummins 6.7, Duramax 6.6, but they all come on pretty massive vehicles and for the all of them the emissions systems largely offset diesel reliability so you need to go to a 2012 or earlier model. Maybe that's overly simplistic. I was looking into Ram 2500s for a while, but wanted the pre-2012 for the no-DEF reason, but sounds like in 2013 they solved problems that Thuren Fab describes and most of the AEV components are for 2013+, so there wasn't a super clear sweet spot - at least for me.

Looking around at various campers - I think I'm most likely to build something that's on par w/ weigh of the Aterra built for the Tacoma - at less than 600lb. Like this:

For that weight/size, the American HD pickups just don't seem right.