What truck/camper combo won't shake apart off road, i.e. Dalton Hwy?

deserteagle56

Adventurer
For $20-30k though! IMO it's silly expensive... 4wd pickups are ubiquitous and no more than a 2wd van. It's seems kinda crazy to me that they didn't use the same rear axle in the vans as the pickups. Smaller clearances I guess?

No...the guys that install Superduty axles under their Ford vans have no clearance problems. I believe the spring pads on the axles need to be moved, and depending on the year there's a speed sensor (for odo/speedo and to keep the computer happy) that causes a problem.

No idea why Ford cheaped out and went to semi-float axles for the later E350 vans. Saving a penny, I guess. Some of the older (pre-2005) E350 vans did come with full float axles.
 

84FLH

Active member
I took this one up in 2009 https://www.expeditionportal.com/fo...00-12v-w-alaskan-camper-8k-obo-cda-id.237103/ the present owners took it to South America.
Hey fisher205;

Saw that ad when it was first posted. The blowby issue and the "fair amount of rot in the rear" statement made me reconsider.

The Alaskan campers have the coolest look of all the popups, I think. But their interiors seem kind of austere. But I've only seen photos and never been inside one. Being inside is a whole lot different than looking at pictures.

How cold did it get on your Alaska trip, and did the camper furnace keep the inside warm, as opposed to not cold? How did you keep water supply lines from freezing?
 

84FLH

Active member
Optinum ratios are dependent on the vehicle weight, engine choice..... and hundreds of variables but generally the factory gets it right. Any changes lead to changes to maintain the factory performance. plus account for the other 100 variables which change.

This calculator is very cool. Click on the lead header for each variable and a menu drops down.


And this is cool if sourcing tires...


But basically..... until you have that baseline experience just buy a solid 4x4 and go explore. ANY STOCK JEEP WRANGLER is an awesome base. If you need bigger ANY FACTORY STOCK 3/4 or 1 Ton pickup is a great base to build from.....

If you want a van definitely look at the 2500/3500 series with AWD.... I love 4WD for the low range but a heavy van likely comes with a lower axle ratio than a 1500 series van and that effectively gives you better performance off pavement. In 2WD often you need momentum, in AWD 4WD you get to drive slower which helps ...

combo won't shake apart off road

BUILD the CAMPER FIRST..... Leave the truck fully stock. Nothing is more capable/durable/reliable/economical than the factory design..... EVERY change compromizes something else. IE bigger tires require a lift lower axle ratios.... which raise the center of gravity and reduces fuel economy hurting range.

In overlanding RANGE and DURABILTY are things you should never reduce.

Hey billiebob;

Thank you. So it's 45 minutes after I read your post and I just finished reading Truck Camper Adventure's "Top 10 Truck Camper Mistakes". Here's mistake #6:


6. Buying Suspension Mods That Aren’t Needed


A truck camper mistake we see probably the most. Test drive your truck and camper to see how it handles first before rushing out to spend money on suspension modifications. Otherwise, you may waste a lot of money and time on hardware that you don’t really need.

We’ve lost count how many times we’ve seen this happen on the truck camper forums. Prospective truck camper owners will rush out and install things like new shocks, air bags, and sway bars before even buying a truck camper or before taking their camper out on a test drive. This is like putting the cart before the horse.

See how your truck handles with your truck camper first before spending money on any mods. If you’re truck is experiencing porpoising, rear sag, or sway with your camper mounted, then you can address each particular issue with the appropriate suspension modification.
 

rruff

Explorer
Prospective truck camper owners will rush out and install things like new shocks, air bags, and sway bars before even buying a truck camper or before taking their camper out on a test drive. This is like putting the cart before the horse.

BTW, these are people who use their campers on the road and park at campgrounds. If you stay below the payload rating (especially on a 25xx +) it may very well perform ok on the road in stock configuration. They are setup for hauling loads like that from the factory.

Long dirt washboard roads and technical trails are another thing completely.
 

84FLH

Active member
BTW, these are people who use their campers on the road and park at campgrounds. If you stay below the payload rating (especially on a 25xx +) it may very well perform ok on the road in stock configuration. They are setup for hauling loads like that from the factory.

Long dirt washboard roads and technical trails are another thing completely.
Thanks, rruff. Your suspension mods posts are good reading. Appreciate you sharing your hard earned (and paid for) knowledge.

I never knew the "how and why" of suspension had so many variables. Sprung weight. Unsprung weight. Rebound. Compression. (I know rebound/compression from my amateur motorcycle road racing experience, but not how R/C is achieved on a truck) Springs v coils. Solid axle v. Ford's old twin I beam v. independent suspension.

What would you recommend as basic mods to improve:

1. Ground clearance
2. Compression/rebound of fully loaded camper on FS roads, rougher roads
3. Front/rear articulation to ensure continuous tire contact?

I've seen some vids of hard side truck campers on bumpy, semi rock-strewn, off camber back roads where the camper bounces and sways a lot; so much I wonder how they didn't turn over.

I'm guessing the bigger the setup, the stiffer the compression should be, and the faster rebound should be. Also guess that would make pavement driving comparably stiffer.
 

simple

Adventurer
The number one way to control sway with a slide in camper is a dually rear end. It's night and day different than a stock single rear wheel. With a single rear wheel you just have to get used to a bit of sway. If you clamp down the axles with sway bars you wont get very much axle articulation off road. Keeping tires on the ground results in better traction and control off road. Sway bars really help on twisty pavement and highspeed evasive maneuvers. Those are some tradeoffs that need to be balanced depending on what basket you want to put your eggs in.
 
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rruff

Explorer
Thanks, rruff. Your suspension mods posts are good reading. Appreciate you sharing your hard earned (and paid for) knowledge.

Ha! I haven't even put the camper on the Tundra!

I have a ton of experience with 3 setups on a '84 Toyota 2wd PU with terrible ground clearance. The only upgrade was an add-a-leaf (I was poor then). I bashed and barreled over rocks for 13 years and 170k miles, and the bottom of it was covered in dents and craters (including the oil pan and gas tank). I would traverse rocks piles and climbs that I had no business on... just get a running start, slip the clutch, and bam bam bam. Did it all the time. It never left me stranded, but that was due to miraculous good fortune rather than sound judgement... ? :oops: As far as on-road handling goes, it was totally fine with the 2nd setup (a sit-up height shell), but it was pretty awful with the big stand up camper I built later... although offroad it seemed fine. So long as you aren't doing stupid stuff at the same time, even a tall camper can tilt sideways about 45 degrees before it falls over... which is a lot, believe me! Terrified my girlfriend, but I wasn't close to disaster. I wonder how it would have been with a spring and shock upgrade, regear, better tires, etc... but I'll never know.

So my recommendations are mostly based on lots of reading and pondering, rather than personal experience that I'd advise for anyone else! Except for maybe... reaching for "perfection" isn't really necessary... just drive within the limits of what you have (or exceed them?), and hope for the best.

Now to your questions.

Ground clearance. Bigger tires raise everything, including the diff (or diffs if it's a solid axle front). They also roll over bumps better. And wide tires will hold more weight at a lower pressure, which is nice. The downside is fitting them in the wheelwells, the price, braking performance is reduced a bit, there is usually an MPG hit (though not for the tires I bought), and the fact that they raise your gear ratio. Any of these may or may not be important depending on the specific truck and its specs. My front shocks are set to 2" lift and I plan to maintain that with a load, and keep the rear at stock height, so it will be level. It was not hard to make enough room for 35x13" tires. I have 12" clearance at the bottom of the diff which is the low point. My '84 was probably half that!

Good armor is another option (skidplates, sliders) although I don't have any experience using this as a substitute for clearance. I do have a skidplate, but nothing else in this category.

Shocks. I'm really pleased with the Ironman shocks and I think they'll be good with a big load as well. They are in the "digressive" valving category, which means they have relatively high damping at low speed piston movements (like you'd encounter in accident avoidance) but respond fine to fast motion like bumps. They are a little stiff on small bumps but that doesn't bother me. I took off the swaybar and was blown away at how well the truck handled winding mountain roads at speed, as well as rough winding dirt. Very planted and controlled. These are fairly inexpensive shocks and aren't available for everything. In the same category Dobinson and OME are options, but I think Ironman FCPros are better. A lot of people get 2.5" Icon, Fox, or King. These are very nice (and expensive), plus you can have them custom valved (Accutune does this for "free"). The downside for me is the that they require more frequent rebuilds (high pressure gas and light seals), and I plan to be living in my camper and don't want to mess with that.

Swaybars. My first try will be none. They specifically resist independent wheel motion, which causes more sideways jerking offroad... plus a lack of articulation. If I don't like the onroad handling with the camper I might try a rear one... the front is definitely staying off. If you have digressive shocks with high damping, they do well at sudden maneuvers. On sweeping turns you still get more body roll though, without the sways. I plan to just slow down if necessary... no big deal.

For rear springs I'm planning to add two leafs (one long and one short), and use either long travel airbags or cradles. The bags will mostly be for sideways leveling and fine tuning the height, not much load. Hopefully I'll get the damn camper on in a couple months so I can see how it does.

Good luck!
 

84FLH

Active member
The number one way to control sway with a slide in camper is a dually rear end. It's night and day different than a stock single rear wheel. With a single rear wheel you just have to get used to a bit of sway. If you clamp down the axles with sway bars you wont get very much axle articulation off road. Keeping tires on the ground results in better traction and control off road. Sway bars really help on twisty pavement and highspeed evasive maneuvers. Those are some tradeoffs that need to be balanced depending on what basket you want to put your eggs in.
Thanks, simple.

If you add sway bars, how much articulation do you lose, e.g., 6 inches front, 4 inches rear, etc?
 

84FLH

Active member
Hey rruff;

The 2wd Toyota stories were a blast to read. I could visualize it, and the triumph when successfully over and past the rocks.

So your Ironman front shocks are adjustable for height? That's how you got the 2" raise up front?

Regarding custom valving. The shock shop decides on how to valve based on GVWR, actual weight of loaded rig, tire size, and a few other factors?

Here is a camper on the tundra.

 

simple

Adventurer
I don't have an answer for that. It is very vehicle specific as well as weight, suspension and spring force of the particular sway bar.
 

rruff

Explorer
If you add sway bars, how much articulation do you lose, e.g., 6 inches front, 4 inches rear, etc?

There is a video posted somewhere in this site a few days back, where a guy tested this on his FJ Cruiser. The front swaybar reduced articulation a lot, but the rear one actually improved the total (vs no sways) by making the front articulate more. This is rear solid axle and IFS like most half tons. Solid axles front and rear like heavier duty trucks would be different. I think you'd want to remove both.

Purely anecdotal, but I really like not having swaybars on my truck. It feels so good in the situations where I really care. I think the lateral lurching that swaybars cause is more annoying than the reduced articulation.

If you haven't, you should check out Peter's build threads, as they might be relevant to what you seek. That would be a heavier duty truck with a lightish commercial camper, with lots of offroad use.

 
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rruff

Explorer
For overlanding stock will do just fine if you pick the correct stock vehicle and drive to get to the destination.... an idiot can break anything.

I don't know if you saw my post #120, but you should give it a look if not...

Most of us are in pickups of some kind, with a camper of some kind, and like to get to remote campsites that weed out the masses. I thought the OP wanted to do a lot more than take a long trip on a well traveled road, but I could be wrong.

I believe there are very reasonable upgrades a person can make that will enhance the ability to safely get to remote campsites... without beating the crap out of their rigs.
 

rruff

Explorer
The 2wd Toyota stories were a blast to read. I could visualize it, and the triumph when successfully over and past the rocks.

Actually... it *was* exciting, but I did it all the time! So kinda just normal...

After a few years I decided that north of Yuma was the best place to camp in the depths of winter. I scouted around and found a good spot just west of Picacho Peak (CA not AZ). To get there I had to go through a place called "the Narrows" according to a motorcycle rider I met. Many dents were required to get through. The uphill trip was the worst, but I had to go both ways once a week... for 3 months or so, for several years.

I camped there in my Tundra a couple years ago. I got through it without hitting anything... just barely. I crawled and had a spotter. I can't believe I blasted through there so many times in the '84!

I do have a picture of that campsite, with the "too big" camper.

YPic07-.jpg
 
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rruff

Explorer
So your Ironman front shocks are adjustable for height? That's how you got the 2" raise up front?

Yes, they have threaded collars so the preload is adjustable. I thought they'd be adjustable on the truck, but clearance makes it really hard. Many aftermarket shocks have adjustable preload, but the cheaper ones usually have discrete settings with 4 or 5 options so the shock must be removed.

iu
 

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