Where can I shoot?

[Photobug]

Well I am one step closer to having my CFP which is what Wyoming calls CCL. I filled out the form a few days ago, easy peasy, until the last box to check off, 'a course or some sign off on qualification to handle a gun.' The nearest simplest course was 3 months and 8 hours drive away. I left a message for the local shooing company that provides training, $400 for 2 hours, for that kind of money I could be on my way to another gun. So I called the number of on the state website left a message and was called back in an hour and was referred to Legal Heat as an approved class. 3 hours later I have my final piece in hand. It will likely take 90 days for the state and sheriff to get my CFP to me.

Now I got to make sense of all the law, and limitations as I plan to travel through many states. The Legal Heat which is presented by an attorney and former prosecutor brought up some interesting facts and new ideas, like 'less than lethal force.' If someone is trying to steal my bike I am expected to engage in hand to hand combat with him?

Another interesting 'fact' was the protection of passage through a state you are not qualified to carry in has to be only passing through 24 hours and no touristing to enjoy the Federal Protection. The instructor quoted NJ CA and one other state as being the ones to be concerned about regarding this. Fortunately they do not have 'require to inform' laws.

 

[DieselRanger]

Well I am one step closer to having my CFP which is what Wyoming calls CCL. I filled out the form a few days ago, easy peasy, until the last box to check off, 'a course or some sign off on qualification to handle a gun.' The nearest simplest course was 3 months and 8 hours drive away. I left a message for the local shooing company that provides training, $400 for 2 hours, for that kind of money I could be on my way to another gun. So I called the number of on the state website left a message and was called back in an hour and was referred to Legal Heat as an approved class. 3 hours later I have my final piece in hand. It will likely take 90 days for the state and sheriff to get my CFP to me.

Now I got to make sense of all the law, and limitations as I plan to travel through many states. The Legal Heat which is presented by an attorney and former prosecutor brought up some interesting facts and new ideas, like 'less than lethal force.' If someone is trying to steal my bike I am expected to engage in hand to hand combat with him?

Another interesting 'fact' was the protection of passage through a state you are not qualified to carry in has to be only passing through 24 hours and no touristing to enjoy the Federal Protection. The instructor quoted NJ CA and one other state as being the ones to be concerned about regarding this. Fortunately they do not have 'require to inform' laws.

I strongly recommend joining USCCA, as with membership you also can get legal representation from a set of firms who are supposed "experts" in castle doctrine/self defense and concealed carry laws in a given state, and liability insurance should you use a firearm in a self defense situation.

One thing they claim - and this may be to drum up more membership fees - is that while law enforcement may decline to charge you with homicide or manslaughter in a true self-defense situation, the family of the reason for your self defense action will almost certainly sue you in civil court whether they die or not.

 

[MTVR]

The Legal Heat which is presented by an attorney and former prosecutor brought up some interesting facts and new ideas, like 'less than lethal force.' If someone is trying to steal my bike I am expected to engage in hand to hand combat with him?

I carry my pistol, flashlight (even during the day), cell phone, and OC spray. But I have the best training your tax dollars can buy, and many many years of successfully navigating a use of force continuum in real time, when my life and the lives of others have been on the line.

It is important for you to develop an understanding of how use of force situations can escalate at light speed. Let's say you walk out into your car port, and find some tweaker hunched over your bicycle. He hears you, and spins around to face you...holding the screwdriver he was trying to pry your bike lock open with. At that moment, you realize that where you are standing, is blocking his only path of escape. Are you doing the math here? Property crimes can turn into person crimes in an instant. Is your bicycle worth your life? Is it worth the time and expense of defending yourself in a civil suit brought by his relatives?

Watch some videos on Dennis Tueller's "21 Foot Rule". Dennis taught my Glock Factory Armorer class, and is a very funny guy. His "21 Foot Rule" is deadly serious stuff:

 

[MTVR]

...while law enforcement may decline to charge you with homicide or manslaughter in a true self-defense situation, the family of the reason for your self defense action will almost certainly sue you in civil court whether they die or not.

Yup. 100% of the time. I think it's because the words "litigation" and "lottery" both start with the letter "L" and seek a giant payout. Some people even refer to those types of lawsuits as the "ghetto lottery"...

 

[Pacific Northwest yetti]

I carry my pistol, flashlight (even during the day), cell phone, and OC spray. But I have the best training your tax dollars can buy, and many many years of successfully navigating a use of force continuum in real time, when my life and the lives of others have been on the line.

It is important for you to develop an understanding of how use of force situations can escalate at light speed. Let's say you walk out into your car port, and find some tweaker hunched over your bicycle. He hears you, and spins around to face you...holding the screwdriver he was trying to pry your bike lock open with. At that moment, you realize that where you are standing, is blocking his only path of escape. Are you doing the math here? Property crimes can turn into person crimes in an instant. Is your bicycle worth your life? Is it worth the time and expense of defending yourself in a civil suit brought by his relatives?

Watch some videos on Dennis Tueller's "21 Foot Rule". Dennis taught my Glock Factory Armorer class, and is a very funny guy. His "21 Foot Rule" is deadly serious stuff:

As someone who spends a lot of time in close quarters w/ strangers off all intents, this is important stuff. "Expect the attack at anytime" when not in quarters we have recently been told. Glad you were able to get a class in.

In a perfect world, I would also recommend some Krav Maga classes just the basics. Be mindful,that lethality should always be the last defense, as in everything else already failed i cant get away.......and am in imminent harm. Of course all these happen in milliseconds.

 

[BritKLR]

In a perfect world, I would also recommend some Krav Maga classes just the basics. Be mindful,that lethality should always be the last defense, as in everything else already failed i cant get away.......and am in imminent harm. Of course all these happen in milliseconds.

Great points. And, there is no such thing as following a "force continuum" in a violent confrontation.
Love me some Krav......

 

[BritKLR]

One thing they claim - and this may be to drum up more membership fees - is that while law enforcement may decline to charge you with homicide or manslaughter in a true self-defense situation, the family of the reason for your self defense action will almost certainly sue you in civil court whether they die or not.

Correct. The civil claim will be Wrongful Death (dead) or Serious Physical Injury (Not Dead, but messed up). And, now a new Jury of 12 will be looking at you to determine level of negligence or if you could have done something else.....depending on the state, like walk away, use less lethal, use a taser, use kung ****, say "please", shoot the weapon out of his hand, shot him in the leg, maybe a warning shot, etc, etc, etc......Whatever the Personal Injury Attorney and his hired subject matter experts (typically a retired range master, police officer, agent now working for the dollar......) can claim....

Raise your hand if you've been there, done that and survived the litigation?

I still like Idaho's "Defense of Self" statute because it specifically states you can not be held in "legal jeopardy" (criminal or civil) for your actions as long as you use force for the statues stated reasons. Nice.....

 

[BritKLR]

Watch some videos on Dennis Tueller's "21 Foot Rule". Dennis taught my Glock Factory Armorer class, and is a very funny guy. His "21 Foot Rule" is deadly serious stuff:

Good stuff! Brings back painful memories after Waxed Bullets, Simmuntions and Airsoft came to the training cadre!

 

[MTVR]

Glad you were able to get a class in.

Dennis was a really funny guy.

When he was talking about Glock's rail-mounted pistol lights, he said that the only thing we needed to know about them, was that Glock makes really good pistols.

When he started the class, he asked us if anyone knew what the purpose of a pistol was. It was obvious to me that he was fishing for a famous Clint Smith quote ("The purpose of a pistol is to fight your way to your rifle."). I gave him the quote, which resulted in a collective gasp from those in the class that didn't know it.

Dennis likes to have fun- if you ever get a chance to take a class from him, I recommend it...

 

[MTVR]

Good stuff! Brings back painful memories after Waxed Bullets, Simmuntions and Airsoft came to the training cadre!

I was already a competetive shooter before I got hired. When we did active shooter training with Sim rounds, I really put in the effort.

After all these years, I think most of my instructors have forgiven me...

 

[mikeyb1976]

Are you and LEO or military Why have you had the opportunity to get sprayed?

I wasn't directly sprayed, but I have had the opportunity to experience the potency of bear spray. We stayed at the Granite Park Chalet in Glaicer NP. The "interns" who run the chalet go get water every morning, and on their backpack is a bear spray canister (not handy at all). Well that morning one intern dropped off his pack and somehow ruptured the canister and it began spraying. This was in the back room where the sinks are. There's a kitchen and then the dining room. I was in the dining room, and my wife was in the kitchen. She comes running out, runs outside and pukes and has water streaming from her eyes. I smelled something really nasty and went outside.

After experiencing that little bit, I'd never want to use bear spray. It *may* deter a bear, but it will most certainly negatively affect the hiking party.

It's funny how there are a few states that are relatively lax with gun control yet don't honor each other's permits almost like a tit for tat.

Many states have decided that they'll reciprocate with other states as long as their laws are similar or they acknowledge the other state's permits. It's "ok, WV, your laws match ours, so we'll accept your permit. FL, you accept ours, but your laws aren't like ours, you let 19 year olds have pistols, so we're not honoring your permits."

I'd love a national CC law/permit. It makes no sense why there isn't one. I have a WA and UT permit, and that only gets me 35 states, iirc.

Now I got to make sense of all the law, and limitations as I plan to travel through many states. The Legal Heat which is presented by an attorney and former prosecutor brought up some interesting facts and new ideas, like 'less than lethal force.' If someone is trying to steal my bike I am expected to engage in hand to hand combat with him?

Another interesting 'fact' was the protection of passage through a state you are not qualified to carry in has to be only passing through 24 hours and no touristing to enjoy the Federal Protection. The instructor quoted NJ CA and one other state as being the ones to be concerned about regarding this. Fortunately they do not have 'require to inform' laws.

First, firearm use, in my opinion, should only be used in a life or death situation. Someone stealing a bike or car isn't life-threatening (99% of the time). A few years ago a WA man shot a car thief who stole the guy's Suburban while it warmed up in the guy's driveway. In WA state the law allows for deadly force to prevent a felony from happening, or is happening. Would I shoot a someone who stole my vehicle, as they drove away? Nope.

Second, even if you're clear by the Feds, you still have to deal with state laws. When it comes to firearms, take nothing at face value. Like the lawyer who was convicted of illegally possessing ammo in D.C. It was a dud shotgun round he kept on his desk.

Always check the laws of the states you'll be travelling through. I tend to reference handgunlaw.us. They include all of the relevant laws, including off-limit locations, duty to notify, car/RV carry, etc.

As someone who spends a lot of time in close quarters w/ strangers off all intents, this is important stuff. "Expect the attack at anytime" when not in quarters we have recently been told. Glad you were able to get a class in.

In a perfect world, I would also recommend some Krav Maga classes just the basics. Be mindful,that lethality should always be the last defense, as in everything else already failed i cant get away.......and am in imminent harm. Of course all these happen in milliseconds.

In nearly all instances, I believe you'll never out-draw a criminal. But they're also going to be stupid enough to be too close to their target. The 21-foot rule applies to criminals as well.

As far as the topic at hand, the areas to shoot... No one tells anyone nuthin'! All the good spots get ruined around here, so I suppose it's no different anywhere else. Instead of paper targets, I bring a big sack of potatoes for targets.

 

[Photobug]

I wasn't directly sprayed, but I have had the opportunity to experience the potency of bear spray. We stayed at the Granite Park Chalet in Glaicer NP. The "interns" who run the chalet go get water every morning, and on their backpack is a bear spray canister (not handy at all).

I have been in a bar where LEO had to use mace to subdue someone. Even though it was a huge place I felt the affects and have watched enough videos of people reacting to see how the newer stuff works, lots of tears and snot.

I live in Bear Country, every car, backpack and life preserver has a can of Bear Spray. I figure it would be my first line of defense in a less than lethal theft deterrent. I have been looking at the option for sprays. Sabre makes a number of inert sprays so you can actually practice with the spray, it would be nice to know how they work before needing to use one.

Practice Sprays: Practice Pepper Spray Canisters | SABRE

Boost confidence and give yourself the best opportunity to escape to safety by preparing in advance with water-filled practice sprays.

www.sabrered.com

I am a few months before getting a concealed carry permit but have been studying up on state and federal laws. It is funny i have managed to go 30+ years unarmed in some sketchy places without concerns but now that I have the potential to be armed..... I feel a mindset change.

 

[Photobug]

So I finally got out shooting.

WIth my .22 rifle from the bench I felt good. With my 9mm, I need to find a bigger barn to be able to hit a target. My pistol work needs some help, hopefully I can secure a source of ammo. One bright point was my wife who was afraid to fire any gun, shot 3 clips of the .22. Here is her 3rd clip.

 

[DieselRanger]

I have been in a bar where LEO had to use mace to subdue someone. Even though it was a huge place I felt the affects and have watched enough videos of people reacting to see how the newer stuff works, lots of tears and snot.

I live in Bear Country, every car, backpack and life preserver has a can of Bear Spray. I figure it would be my first line of defense in a less than lethal theft deterrent. I have been looking at the option for sprays. Sabre makes a number of inert sprays so you can actually practice with the spray, it would be nice to know how they work before needing to use one.

I have been through a CS chamber as part of pre-deployment training years ago. The old, 'remove your mask and recite your service number' bit - cheated a little and took a big breath before I took off my mask, but it didn't matter. That stuff crawls up your nose, in through your ears, around your gums, and directly through your eyes - almost instant coughing reflex, and that makes you inhale reflexively, which then makes it immediately worse. If you have exceptional self-control, you might be able to resist the coughing reflex long enough to clear the immediate area, but it takes a lot of exposure, all the time, to get to the storied but rarely-seen "immunity" anecdotally attributed to steely-eyed R. Lee Ermey drill sergeants. And the fire in your lungs the first couple times makes you really need to want to become immune to go through that more than once.

While I've never personally used bear spray in the wild, I've seen it used from a distance and heard many first-hand stories of it being used. It almost invariably affects not only the creature subject to the spray (assuming you're accurate enough with it), but will also affect the one wielding it and/or others milling about to varying degrees, especially within a group campsite where people tend to be more randomly dispersed. Even a light variable breeze can blow enough back into your face or into someone else's to temporarily freak them out or incapacitate them, even the thick foam kind.

Interestingly, correctly used bear spray is effective at hazing non-aggressive bears - nearly 98% - but only about 85% effective at deterring an aggressive bear, about the same as a firearm. Bear Spray may be even worse in stopping a brown bear charge - as low as 33%:

Does Bear Spray Work?

The science is clear, right? Not so fast, according to, well, science.

www.outsideonline.com

 

[Thinman]

So I finally got out shooting.

WIth my .22 rifle from the bench I felt good. With my 9mm, I need to find a bigger barn to be able to hit a target. My pistol work needs some help, hopefully I can secure a source of ammo. One bright point was my wife who was afraid to fire any gun, shot 3 clips of the .22. Here is her 3rd clip.

Strike while the iron is hot and grab a cheap rimfire kyl target for that .22

I got one for "my" .22 and now I don't own a .22...my wife does. But now she is up to go shooting anytime I mention it