While on vacation......

[plainjaneFJC]

Such an novel comparison, a 40 gallon gas tank! Why didn’t they think of that?

A gallon of gas is roughly 35 kWh of energy (40 gallons x35 kWh = 1400 kWh equivalent, roughly 11 R1T large packs entire capacity.)

Doubt that will register, or even the fact that few people tow frequently long distances, the entire world is not exactly like you claim to be.

I think that’s the point- battery tech has a long ways to go to compete with range in a similar manner.

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

I think that’s the point- battery tech has a long ways to go to compete with range in a similar manner.

I’m trying to think of an instance where someone would chose a tool or piece of equipment as inefficient as a combustion engine when there is another option. Other than nostalgia or honoring sunk costs.

I know, I know towing a 7k pound trailer across Canada at -30 f and living in a rural area without electricity and all. You know, like most people…

I keep a 100w incandescent bulb around to keep chicks warm, but a 10w LED puts out as much light.

 

[plainjaneFJC]

I’m trying to think of an instance where someone would chose a tool or piece of equipment as inefficient as a combustion engine when there is another option. Other than nostalgia or honoring sunk costs.

I know, I know towing a 7k pound trailer across Canada at -30 f and living in a rural area without electricity and all. You know, like most people…

I keep a 100w incandescent bulb around to keep chicks warm, but a 10w LED puts out as much light.

That’s the thing - there isn’t another option without significant compromise. If you are going on a 1 week vacation thru Colorado backcountry- which a lot of folks do every year, an EV truck won’t work- not because of off road ability but power storage.

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

That’s the thing - there isn’t another option without significant compromise. If you are going on a 1 week vacation thru Colorado backcountry- which a lot of folks do every year, an EV truck won’t work- not because of off road ability but power storage.

But the 51 other weeks…

 

[Ex Animo]

My '99 suburban big block pulls my 7000 pound trailer at near 10 mpg, depending on hills, that gets me roughly 400 miles between 10 minute fuel stops, 350 miles at the shortest, same fuel stops, still have not seen or read EV's coming anywhere near that.

Many, many EV advocates have posted unrealistic ranges, nevermind while towing!

Point is, EV vehicles are still leaps and bounds behind ICE vehicles in many of the metrics that users require their daily drivers to provide.

EV's are improving, just not enough for the majority of new vehicle buyers to consider.

350 miles at lets say 70 MPH average = 5 hrs of towing. You take a 10 minute fuel stop and then what... drive another 5 hrs non-stop and you do this frequently? No lunch break, bathroom stops or sightseeing? You're requirements are fringe and hardly represent the average driver, also sounds expensive ($3.44 national average x 40 gals = $137 per fuel stop).

The average person drives 40 miles per day, far less than even the shortest range EV. The majority of new vehicle buyers would be better off with an EV for a daily driver. EV's have almost no maintenance costs and are cheaper to fuel with a much more stable fuel costs over gas. On average people take less than 3 roadtrips per year, hardly a reason to daily drive a gas guzzling beast.

Just read this whole thread, obviously people have strong opinions on both sides so let me share my own perspective.

First off this is America and anyone should be allowed to buy and drive whatever they like, that means Gas, Diesel, EV, or a clown car. This Should be a free country to make your own choices; I 10000% disagree with any mandates. Incentives I like, mandates I hate. Basically in my mind if they want people to embrace EV’s use the carrot, not the stick.

The reason I feel qualified to speak on this particular topic is I currently own and use both. I have a 2023 F150 Lightning Extended Range as well as a 2023 F350 Tremor with the 7.3L Godzilla gas engine.

Both of these vehicles are truly capable and fantastic in their own right. “In general” I use the Lightning to commute and the Tremor to camp but both have swapped duties as needed or because I wanted to try something different. I’ve used the Lightning pretty extensively as a fly fishing vehicle including some overnights and it’s been great.

The truth of EV’s is that while they can and do get pretty acceptable range when things are perfect (weather, terrain, speed) like a gas vehicle this can change quite dramatically. I live in a very northern climate and when cold weather rolls around tbh, they’re not so great.

Now from a driving experience the EV is 10X more fun to drive. It’s quieter, fast, more comfortable, and much less fatiguing to drive in most all situations.

This is actually my 3rd EV and my favorite so far though camping inside my Tesla Model Y when fishing was an amazing experience for sure.

Bottom line both types of vehicles have a purpose but one can definitely be better at things than another. For instance I’m planning on a couple weeks in Northern Maine this fall and if my only vehicle was an EV this trip not only would suck it would literally be impossible to do. That trip the Tremor gets the nod for sure.

I think if you can only own one vehicle, and I realize being able to have both is quite a luxury, you should own what’s best for you and your situation. Let’s be honest most of us drive to work 99% of the time and camp 1%, maybe an EV is ok. Personally I believe in having more than one tool in the toolbox and choosing the right one for the situation.

Let's be honestly you can duck hunt in a bass boat or bass fish in a duck boat but choosing the right one will certainly enhance your experience.

In my personal opinion for the travel I do, which is generally quite remote and offgrid for 2-4 weeks at a time once or twice a year I think an EV would be a pretty awful choice.

If I was more of a weekend warrior (I work weekends) and went out for 2 days at a time not too far from home my Lightning with a low mounted iKamper over the bed would probably be pretty great honestly. I still love it for short trips to the river and certainly it’s the best commuter I’ve ever owned.

Bottom line, if you have to own one, choose what’s right for you and don’t get mad at anyone else for what they choose to own. But honestly. Don’t think an EV is even close to being able to do what a ICE vehicle can do. Unless battery technology drastically changes we’re a ways away from that.

This is all just my $0.06 (adjusted for inflation) and worth what you paid for it.

This is pretty inline with how I view it as well. I love my Chevy Bolt for around town and short trips but obviously it has it's short comings but the amount of money I've saved by not daily driving my Tacoma is no small thing.

 

[crazysccrmd]

I think that’s the point- battery tech has a long ways to go to compete with range in a similar manner.

Battery tech as it stands is far more energy efficient than any internal combustion engine. If converting to equivalent units a gas truck getting 20mpg is getting .6mi/kwh (of the energy potential of gasoline) versus a Rivian R1T getting 2.5mi/kwh. It’s a matter of designing a battery that can accept high enough charge rates for long enough to allow for rapid recharging.

I’m trying to think of an instance where someone would chose a tool or piece of equipment as inefficient as a combustion engine when there is another option. Other than nostalgia or honoring sunk costs.

I know, I know towing a 7k pound trailer across Canada at -30 f and living in a rural area without electricity and all. You know, like most people…

I keep a 100w incandescent bulb around to keep chicks warm, but a 10w LED puts out as much light.

It’s not that simple though. Internal combustion is less efficient but it’s also much easier and more convenient for many uses than electric. Efficiency is only a small part of the picture.

Even if it’s only one week a year that you go into the Colorado backcountry it still isn’t cut and dry obvious answer. Quick numbers, an ICE F150, driven 15k miles at 20mpg and $4/gal costs $3k a year in fuel. A F150 Lightning at 2mi/kwh and $0.30/kw electric rates costs $2250 a year for electricity. Now add in renting a F150 for a week and there really isn’t much cost savings to be found.

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

350 miles at lets say 70 MPH average = 5 hrs of towing. You take a 10 minute fuel stop and then what... drive another 5 hrs non-stop and you do this frequently? No lunch break, bathroom stops or sightseeing? You're requirements are fringe and hardly represent the average driver, also sounds expensive ($3.44 national average x 40 gals = $137 per fuel stop).

The average person drives 40 miles per day, far less than even the shortest range EV. The majority of new vehicle buyers would be better off with an EV for a daily driver. EV's have almost no maintenance costs and are cheaper to fuel with a much more stable fuel costs over gas. On average people take less than 3 roadtrips per year, hardly a reason to daily drive a gas guzzling beast.




This is pretty inline with how I view it as well. I love my Chevy Bolt for around town and short trips but obviously it has it's short comings but the amount of money I've saved by not daily driving my Tacoma is no small thing.

Avis was selling off tons of Bolts with less than 50k miles for around $15k. ROI comes quick on that, especially if your utility has off peak rates.

 

[Ex Animo]

Avis was selling off tons of Bolts with less than 50k miles for around $15k. ROI comes quick on that, especially if your utility has off peak rates.

Yup, my 2020 Bolt with 20K on it cost me $12,000 after the tax credit which is cheaper than any comparable ICE I could find. Costs me $15 a month to charge at home.

It’s not that simple though. Internal combustion is less efficient but it’s also much easier and more convenient for many uses than electric. Efficiency is only a small part of the picture.

Even if it’s only one week a year that you go into the Colorado backcountry it still isn’t cut and dry obvious answer. Quick numbers, an ICE F150, driven 15k miles at 20mpg and $4/gal costs $3k a year in fuel. A F150 Lightning at 2mi/kwh and $0.30/kw electric rates costs $2250 a year for electricity. Now add in renting a F150 for a week and there really isn’t much cost savings to be found.

The fuel savings might be more than that though.. granted the fuel prices are at $4.88 and $0.22/kWh
from here:
Sullins says that based on what people have written in, the F-150 Lightning gets an average of about 2.1 miles of range per kWh. The average miles driven came in at 1,400, and the average price per kWh was calculated at 22 cents. This all works out to 666 kWh of energy used for the month, and that's a cost of $147 to travel those 1,400 miles.

A comparable gas-powered F-150 pickup truck returns about 20 mpg. At $4.88 per gallon, which is the price of gas right now where Sullins lives, gassing up the truck would cost about $342 per month. Sullins says that over five years, charging the F-150 Lightning instead of gassing up a traditional F-150 could save you nearly $12,000, and it would save him even more since his electricity prices are $0.15 per kWh instead of $0.22.

I get it though, it's not a cut and dry comparison and not for everyone but everything has it's plus and minuses (I am not into everything being computerized) but honestly after buying my Bolt I don't think I will ever buy another ICE unless it's for a very specific reason like a dedicated camper van. I'm %100 willing to change my driving behavior slightly to drive an EV (I can hangout somewhere for 30-45 min while the car charges, doesn't bother me), they are just so much better than ICE to drive/own.

 

[Ex Animo]

I also just want to point out that the OP came into the EV forum and started an anti-EV thread and then ghosted.

This thread started as an anti-EV ******** post, based on an assumption. There are about a 1/2 dozen members who frequent this sub that only offer the same tired narratives with little pushback. They aren’t interested in EVs, they’re just here to kick a puppy.

Any content about actual EVs get very little traction here, but anti-EV sentiments in an EV forum, get all the hits. Rarely are the threads even backed up with sourcing. Overland Journals coverage of EVs is decades ahead of the average poster on this sub.

This is a big reason I stopped frequenting this website, I come back occasionally to see if anything interesting is happening with people overlanding in EV's but quickly get burned out on the hate. Excited for you and your new rig though!

 

[plainjaneFJC]

I also just want to point out that the OP came into the EV forum and started an anti-EV thread and then ghosted.



This is a big reason I stopped frequenting this website, I come back occasionally to see if anything interesting is happening with people overlanding in EV's but quickly get burned out on the hate. Excited for you and your new rig though!

It’s called conversation- not hate, you just want one side commentary, this isn’t the view.

 

[Ex Animo]

This thread is literally EV hate from someone who offered no "conversation" but walked into a room and said EV's suck and walked out. Regardless my comment was not constructive so I probably shouldn't have posted it...

 

[NevadaLover]

350 miles at lets say 70 MPH average = 5 hrs of towing. You take a 10 minute fuel stop and then what... drive another 5 hrs non-stop and you do this frequently? No lunch break, bathroom stops or sightseeing? You're requirements are fringe and hardly represent the average driver, also sounds expensive ($3.44 national average x 40 gals = $137 per fuel stop).

The average person drives 40 miles per day, far less than even the shortest range EV. The majority of new vehicle buyers would be better off with an EV for a daily driver. EV's have almost no maintenance costs and are cheaper to fuel with a much more stable fuel costs over gas. On average people take less than 3 roadtrips per year, hardly a reason to daily drive a gas guzzling beast.

Your first mistake is thinking I take paved roads to get where I want to go, your second mistake is thinking I drive like the average American.

First off I plan our trips using maps and google earth, every possible mile of dirt road is the goal I follow and we plan accordingly, being retired I have lots of free time and the GF is a part time IT tech who works from home, thus we have a ton of time to work with on our trips, sometimes we make it to our destination but often we see something very interesting off in the distance and change routes to explore that, and that is one of the major bonuses of life in the rural western states, if we are on a timeline we will leave the big trailer and take the 16 foot single axle camper or just sleep in the suburban.

I have always maintained my position about EV's here on the portal, there is no viable EV option for my needs thus no EV in my stable of vehicles, when and IF the battery technology improves enough and manufacturers design, build and sell an EV that does all that my rig does then I will look seriously at an EV for the stable, but I truly doubt that scenario will be a reality in my lifetime.

 

[NevadaLover]

One more thought, some of the users here seemed incensed and offended that some other users don't like EV's or argue against the push made to get all of us into EV's, if EV's were comparable to all the ICE offerings there wouldn't be so much anti-EV push here, once (if ever) there are comparable EV's a lot of the anti-EV talk will stop, but that isn't going to happen anytime soon!

P.S. a couple users here need to simply put on their grown up underwear and stop whining so bad, it's no different than the anti-toyota, ford or gm talk here, people like different things than you.

 

[Ex Animo]

Your first mistake is thinking I take paved roads to get where I want to go, your second mistake is thinking I drive like the average American.

First off I plan our trips using maps and google earth, every possible mile of dirt road is the goal I follow and we plan accordingly, being retired I have lots of free time and the GF is a part time IT tech who works from home, thus we have a ton of time to work with on our trips, sometimes we make it to our destination but often we see something very interesting off in the distance and change routes to explore that, and that is one of the major bonuses of life in the rural western states, if we are on a timeline we will leave the big trailer and take the 16 foot single axle camper or just sleep in the suburban.

I have always maintained my position about EV's here on the portal, there is no viable EV option for my needs thus no EV in my stable of vehicles, when and IF the battery technology improves enough and manufacturers design, build and sell an EV that does all that my rig does then I will look seriously at an EV for the stable, but I truly doubt that scenario will be a reality in my lifetime.

Fair enough, I made an assumption about your usage but my point still stands that you don't represent the average usage. Not everyone hauls a 7 thousand pound trailer around forrest service roads 400 miles at a time and require a 10 minute refuel so they can keep going. I am a little jealous you get to though.

One more thought, some of the users here seemed incensed and offended that some other users don't like EV's or argue against the push made to get all of us into EV's, if EV's were comparable to all the ICE offerings there wouldn't be so much anti-EV push here, once (if ever) there are comparable EV's a lot of the anti-EV talk will stop, but that isn't going to happen anytime soon!

P.S. a couple users here need to simply put on their grown up underwear and stop whining so bad, it's no different than the anti-toyota, ford or gm talk here, people like different things than you.

No one is forcing you to buy an EV, ICE cars will be around for a long time (your suburban being an example).

Funny I just looked through the first 3 pages of the other forums (Toyota, Ford, full size...) and didn't see any threads that straight up say they're terrible.

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

One more thought, some of the users here seemed incensed and offended that some other users don't like EV's or argue against the push made to get all of us into EV's, if EV's were comparable to all the ICE offerings there wouldn't be so much anti-EV push here, once (if ever) there are comparable EV's a lot of the anti-EV talk will stop, but that isn't going to happen anytime soon!

P.S. a couple users here need to simply put on their grown up underwear and stop whining so bad, it's no different than the anti-toyota, ford or gm talk here, people like different things than you.

You’ve told us many time you aren’t interested in an EV, but you keep coming back to say it over and over.