Who ordered a New Defender ?

[Victory_Overland]

Drove the company LR4 back to SD from my work trip in Vegas today and it reminded me how comfortable my LR3 used to feel when I first bought it. The LR3 is still comfortable as it always has been, just saying the LR4 was like how I felt from going from other vehicles to the LR3; quite, comfortable, sturdy, great power, and a ton of fun on and off-road. Cruised at 80mph (LR4 is an SCV6 for those that must know) almost the whole way in complete silence from wind noise, road noise, etc and because the boss owns it; I kept it on the road but damn was I tempted.....oh was I tempted to drop it off in the bay covered in SoCal desert dust just because it's never been off-road (tragic). Then coming through Barstow, an RR Base with what sounded like Remus exhaust passed me at at least 120mph and it sounded titties and looked even better as a freeway cruiser! Best part is, he gave me the wave in the window when he passed by........there is hope! lol! If it was one of you guys; the 120mph lane is the one on the far left, not the far right!

FYI, that Defender test video is legit! Sure, the editing is to ensure the best parts are captured but those are legit tests, capabilities, performance metrics across the board. I honestly believe JLR is putting forth the right marketing effort to many aspects and this is what we should see if we turn on the TV and see a JLR commercial promoting Defender! We can't speak for the reliability at this moment but I challenge anyone to post a video of any other brand vehicle doing the exact same testing in all aspects with the same "ALL AROUND PERFORMANCE IN EVERY CATEGORY" and especially on the same set of tires; appears most of the shots on and off-road where on the same set-up!

Ready......GO!

cuz you won't find one! I do believe the Defender was back then, and is now, still in a category of its own!

I also hope to see a highly modified D90 make its way into DAKAR! Of course none of the vehicles in the open class of DAKAR are production but I believe it would be awesome to see D90 in the Stock Class and Open Class (whatever they call it) and finish; and finish top 10 its first year.

I say its growing on me even more and I hope the reliability follows for the sake of our brand; we need it!

 

[blackangie]

Blackangie
you know why me and some of the guys like me argue here ? Because we like the Land Rover.
I said before, my friends lr4 has been the most reliable and capable truck among 10 other trucks we take out to play, 230.000 miles and counting,
but at the same time that’s not a case with every rover.
I really hope the new defender kicks ass,
And changes ppls opinion about land Rovers.

as far as the facts you are asking about, I am comparing it to land cruiser.

Going back to the tread,

There is noting wrong about have gasoline powered defender, modem small Diesel engines are not any more reliable,
The old waterproof simple diesel is long gone,

I am sorry if I offended you in my previous posts.
I guess we all get worked up sometimes.

Not to worry not offended, just like to be factual as i personally have found out the new rovers are way more reliable than people think.

You drove an LR3 for a few months, im sure it didn't let you down much. But its not latest gen, your mates LR4 is the most reliable and capable of 10 4bys you wheel with. This is the real world evidence we see on the aussie forum time and time again. The reliability thing just simply isnt true, even the infotainment dramas n glitches seem to be fixed, based on our experience.


In terms of the Landcruiser argument, toyota bring one model of petrol cruiser to the states, that's not hard to keep reliable, however its not mentioned in any of the reliability awards.I see people say, LR or JLR is the most unreliable car manufacturer out, if this was from LR owners, Generally speaking it was someone who doesn't own a latest Gen or Newish LR.

To me owning a new JLR vehicle and knowing how reliable the new LR vehicles seem on this forum based on trip reports etc, it just didn't make sense.

Heres what I found, the reliability argument against LR isn't really a thing anymore, ill explain why and it may surprise some that haven't seen this posted before.

I looked at data 20 years prior to 2016 model year and Landrover have improved reliability around 180% since then and most improved over last year of any manufacturer tested in the states.

So what's with LR being towards the bottom of the US dependability list?

The whole industry has improved to a point where there are only a few problems per year between the list after 3 years of ownership. Imo its almost like the top 20 airlines for safety(I try to fly on these), they are not in any particular order as they are all considered as safe as each other.

Landrover owners of 2016 vehicles are only reporting 2 problems and Toyota 1(it seems largely off the back of corolla and prius, camry, avalon, rav4 etc and where limited toyota 4x4 models are sold (infact last time i checked the only similar toyota they sell is a petrol LC200) thats 2 problems for a whole year after 3 years of ownership!
It is reported also that most issues were infotainment related, which admittedly in 2016 was not LRs strongpoint. Would love to see the reliability comparison based only on US LR 4x4s models and US Toyota 4x4 models, but even then it wouldn't be fair due to the lack of diesels from Toyota.

In the UK Landrover reliability is pretty much on par with Toyota (where petrol and diesel etc Toyota 4x4 models are sold in a very similar way to AU, fair comparison)

A Landrover 2016 model has approx 1.42 problems over 12 months after 3 years and Toyota 1.34 (absolutely nothing between them in reliability)

In AU Toyota have been far from the pinnacle of reliability over the last few years, imo LR on the other hand has done really well the last few years avoiding any mass market issues.

I mention Toyota not to badmouth, rather becuase they are usually referred to as some holy grail of reliability and a benchmark. They are a great thing and if you own one great!

The UK is a similar selling market to ours as far as Land Rover and other major 4x4 sellers for example (Yota), the facts show there is about as much difference as identical twins between the two as far as dependability goes, which is incredible considering LR is pretty much 4x4 only, making reliability much harder to achieve then companies that mostly make 2wds.

Times have changed as anyone with a newish JLR vehicle will attest to, quality and reliability are as good as could be expected for the vehicle you actually get, which when you have a vehicle that can do much more than its competitors is much harder to achieve.

This all has taken me a very long time to get my head around over the last year but im glad i did, as LRs reliability factually is much better than many make out and for the last couple of decades has been getting better and better.


This is a good reference point for those that have had similar thoughts or have wondered about the same questions

Sources jdpower us/uk annual reports

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[blackangie]

Drove the company LR4 back to SD from my work trip in Vegas today and it reminded me how comfortable my LR3 used to feel when I first bought it. The LR3 is still comfortable as it always has been, just saying the LR4 was like how I felt from going from other vehicles to the LR3; quite, comfortable, sturdy, great power, and a ton of fun on and off-road. Cruised at 80mph (LR4 is an SCV6 for those that must know) almost the whole way in complete silence from wind noise, road noise, etc and because the boss owns it; I kept it on the road but damn was I tempted.....oh was I tempted to drop it off in the bay covered in SoCal desert dust just because it's never been off-road (tragic). Then coming through Barstow, an RR Base with what sounded like Remus exhaust passed me at at least 120mph and it sounded titties and looked even better as a freeway cruiser! Best part is, he gave me the wave in the window when he passed by........there is hope! lol! If it was one of you guys; the 120mph lane is the one on the far left, not the far right!

FYI, that Defender test video is legit! Sure, the editing is to ensure the best parts are captured but those are legit tests, capabilities, performance metrics across the board. I honestly believe JLR is putting forth the right marketing effort to many aspects and this is what we should see if we turn on the TV and see a JLR commercial promoting Defender! We can't speak for the reliability at this moment but I challenge anyone to post a video of any other brand vehicle doing the exact same testing in all aspects with the same "ALL AROUND PERFORMANCE IN EVERY CATEGORY" and especially on the same set of tires; appears most of the shots on and off-road where on the same set-up!

Ready......GO!

cuz you won't find one! I do believe the Defender was back then, and is now, still in a category of its own!

I also hope to see a highly modified D90 make its way into DAKAR! Of course none of the vehicles in the open class of DAKAR are production but I believe it would be awesome to see D90 in the Stock Class and Open Class (whatever they call it) and finish; and finish top 10 its first year.

I say its growing on me even more and I hope the reliability follows for the sake of our brand; we need it!

Great read, thanks and agreed.

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[DieselRanger]

My D5 is my first Land Rover, though I've driven and ridden in LR products as far back as the 1997 Defender - the last one offered in the US - and a Discovery 1, 2, and LR4. To be honest, other than the last Defender and, for a short time, the D2, I was absolutely not interested in any Land Rover product, especially not as a daily driver that I could also take off-road anywhere I pleased.

I had a 2010 VW Touareg T2 TDI, and those were hardly known for their reliability, but mine was flawless over 7 years and 105,000 hard miles. I actually lost money on the extended warranty. And it was great off-road with a good set of AT tires on 17" wheels and steel suspension. It had a center locker and a low range gearbox too. I have no doubt that I'd still be driving it if VW hadn't been forced to offer me $30,000 to buy it back. Since I paid $46,000 new, I'd have been stupid to pass that up. It spoiled me for diesel SUVs that handle great on the road and are extremely capable off road, and could carry the family and our stuff with ease, so my shopping list was short.

And since I had about 2 years to research and test drive, Land Rover and Jeep GC were the only options, though I was distantly considering a 4Runner, and maybe a Raptor as a midlife crisis vehicle. My research revealed that a Land Rover was a better buy between it and the Jeep GC, the 4Runner being way too outdated for $45K+ and the Raptor being too big to fit in my garage. It didn't help that dishonest Jeep dealers wanted to take my money for a vehicle they *knew* was under a stop-sale due to a Justice Department investigation. Once the new Discovery was announced, it was between the RRS and the Disco. I ordered a Disco.

Land Rover turned a huge corner on reliability starting in 2014, and my research has borne that out over 2 years and 30,000 flawless miles in my D5 - nothing that hasn't required a software update or other preventive service at regular service intervals. Land Rover has simply been a victim of some original sin in the automotive world, and it will take a model generation or two of good reliability to overcome that. Yes, some people do have problems, and when you really read the C/D article, you see displeasure at a premium vehicle experiencing transient electronic glitches that C/D declined to even present to the dealer, and which largely disappeared halfway into their time with it. And here's the thing: when you look at luxury brands, generally they receive higher numbers of complaints for things that buyers of non-luxury brands don't complain about - I have neighbors with Ford vehicles and they have intermittent weirdness with their electronics too, but they resolve themselves after a restart just like Land Rovers do. They mention it to their dealer, the dealer "troubleshoots" it and finds nothing, everybody shrugs, and they go on with their lives. If you're paying $65k+ for a vehicle and your infotainment pukes intermittently, generally you're going to call your dealer and express concern, and they're going to try to address it with things like software updates and the like, and many buyers will not accept "we couldn't find anything wrong" as an answer.

To give you an idea of the problem of image, there are two excellent examples of how that goes both ways. If you were to ask people what their impression of reliability/dependability/durability of Volvo and Subaru are, most who know a thing or two about cars would say they are among the best you could buy, because they have an impression of seeing old 240's and Legacy's trundling along with hundreds of thousands of miles on them. Yet both brands today rate among the lowest in terms of reliability and dependability overall. And this *after* Ford similarly invested in and then divested Volvo, and after Subaru experienced explosive growth in sales in the early 2000's that continues today.

I have no doubt the New Defender will do well and that the investments Tata has made and is continuing to make will continue to bear fruit. Part of the reason they are going to SOTA is precisely because most fixes these days are software related, and because people don't want to or indeed have to take their phones to the phone store to get software updates, they don't want to have to take their cars to the dealer for them either. So when there's a fix, your car fixes itself overnight or while you're at work, or the dealer can push an update after reviewing the vehicle's data without you ever having to darken their doorway. There are already stories on UK forums where LR owners have received OTA updates of their infotainment just hours after calling their dealer to complain. Most seem quite happy with that. My latest D5 update at my last regular service turned on SOTA updates, and my dealer said there were "several" modules beyond infotainment that could be updated remotely. I, for one, am happy to hear that.

The New Defender will be on my short list to replace my D5 when I decide I'd like something new.

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[mpinco]

..........The New Defender will be on my short list to replace my D5 when I decide I'd like something new.

Assuming it is a diesel Defender ....................

 

[gatorgrizz27]

Land Rover has simply been a victim of some original sin in the automotive world, and it will take a model generation or two of good reliability to overcome that. Yes, some people do have problems, and when you really read the C/D article, you see displeasure at a premium vehicle experiencing transient electronic glitches that C/D declined to even present to the dealer, and which largely disappeared halfway into their time with it. And here's the thing: when you look at luxury brands, generally they receive higher numbers of complaints for things that buyers of non-luxury brands don't complain about - I have neighbors with Ford vehicles and they have intermittent weirdness with their electronics too, but they resolve themselves after a restart just like Land Rovers do. They mention it to their dealer, the dealer "troubleshoots" it and finds nothing, everybody shrugs, and they go on with their lives. If you're paying $65k+ for a vehicle and your infotainment pukes intermittently, generally you're going to call your dealer and express concern, and they're going to try to address it with things like software updates and the like, and many buyers will not accept "we couldn't find anything wrong" as an answer.

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Exactly. Everyone goes on and on about LR reliability as if they just blow up on the way to work regularly. With the exception of the Discovery 2’s, that’s not the case.

Small electronic issues and glitches don’t cause much more than an annoyance. Not making excuses for $100k plus cars, but it’s not what a lot of people think.

 

[JeepColorado]

I think it's interesting and probably very challenging for LR, that the Defender has so many competitors and LR seems to be taking on all of them. The base model at below $50K makes it a Wrangler/4Runner competitor and it goes all the way up to taking on the AMG G63 at well over $100K. That's a wide range to try to compete against. It makes me think that Scott Brady's cover story article on the day the Defender was released titled "The New Defender Takes on the World" was on point and really hit the nail on the head- it's going after everybody; trying to be the most well-rounded vehicle, doing everything in every category well.

Land Rover Defender News and Reviews | Motor1.com

Get the latest on new Land Rover Defender models including first drives, in-depth reviews, concept car photos, new features, recalls and more.

www.motor1.com

 

[naks]

Some interesting info on the BMW engine




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[blackangie]

Some interesting info on the BMW engine

View attachment 546948


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Its funny how a comment gets the story more right than about 10 car news agencys.

SVX 100%
Hybrid 100%
Edit: Small literage is possible with forced induction 100%

Nailed it.

Maybe SVR down the track, but i doubt it, SVX is way more fitting for the defender.

Hardcore specs, efficient big power.

Cant wait to see what SVO come up with regardung the defender SVX come up.

Those svr pics are just renders.

Guy responsible for the raptor, now heads up LR SVO

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[soflorovers]

Is new def more travel?

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Thanks for posting these. It's great to see a 2 door D90 without that stupid panel over the rear windows (Sorry if you like it!). That uninterrupted rear glass really adds some visual length to the D90. I really like it!

 

[JackW]

The two door D90 definitely has its roots in the early Range Rovers, not a bad thing at all.

 

[blackangie]

The two door D90 definitely has its roots in the early Range Rovers, not a bad thing at all.

I do very much like the 90, but cant get over the practicality of the 110 for 4x4 touring.

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[soflorovers]

I do very much like the 90, but cant get over the practicality of the 110 for 4x4 touring.

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Agreed. However, I'm not sure which I'd pick. The 110 is undoubtedly the more practical option, but a 90 would be an excellent DD for an urban environment where space is somewhat limited. Considering there will be a plethora of aftermarket and OEM storage solutions, I'm not sure I'd snag a 110 unless I needed to fit more bodies (not equipment). At the moment, it's just me and my GF which means a 90 will likely suffice. I can see myself eventually replacing my LR3 and Hellcat for a new D90 and a weekend track toy. Please LR, don't mess this up...

 

[mpinco]

Somewhat tangentially related to JLR .............will definitely impact the supplier base.

Recall that PSA has been previously mentioned in JLR partnerships discussions.

Fiat Surges, Peugeot Tumbles As "Merger Of Equals" Creates World's 4th Largest Carmaker

"Italy's Fiat Chrysler and French Peugeot owner PSA agreed to join forces in a what was described a 50-50 share swap merger of equals, creating the world’s fourth-largest automaker, triggering a fresh wave of consolidation in the reeling car industry.

As first leaked earlier this week, Fiat Chrysler and PSA said they aimed to reach a binding deal to create a $50 billion company domiciled in the Netherlands, with listings in Paris, Milan and New York and with PSA’s Carlos Tavares as CEO and FCA’s John Elkann as chairman. .............."

 

[DieselRanger]

Somewhat tangentially related to JLR .............will definitely impact the supplier base.

Recall that PSA has been previously mentioned in JLR partnerships discussions.

I think that partnership has to date only extended to the Lion Td6 and SD6 engines. I actually foresee a bigger problem for Ford since a variant of that engine is now in the F150, whereas the supplier relationship with Land Rover is coming to a close. Might hurry up the Ingenium Inline-6 turbodiesel - which I'm all for.