Why are other full size SUV's not used in overlanding/offroading as often as Forerunner/Landcruiser?

[rayra]

So, back to a part of this conversation that I haven't seen mentioned (or may have missed)... body width. I have several good friends who's rig of choice are 2005-19 Nissan D40 Frontiers/Xterras. I've worked on these trucks quite a bit at this point with my buddies and can appreciate the platform because it reminds me a lot of the domestic Trucks/SUVs I've had or worked on: pretty strait forward, relatively durable and not over-complicated. At this point the platform is also slightly antiquated, which in my mind is a positive not a negative. They don't get the press that Tacomas, Colorados or Rangers get (similar to domestic full size SUVs).

With that said, this isn't a conversation about Nissans, it's about truck size. Here in the PNW (and other parts of North America), trails and logging roads can be tight and wider vehicles can be at a disadvantage. With that said, on my personal truck, a '92 K1500 RCSB, it seems like the first thing that always comes up in conversation is that the width will be a problem... I was curious about this, because it seemed to me on a casual glance that midsize trucks where now closer in size to my older full-size truck and that everything was getting larger...

I looked at the listed body widths of some common rigs and realized that I wasn't as far off as I thought:

1988-2000 GMT400 Blazer/Suburban/Tahoe Body Width: 76.8"
2000-2006 GMT800 Tahoe/Suburban Body width: 78.9
2007-2014 GMT900 Tahoe/Suburban body width: 79"
2015-up K2XX Thahoe/Suburban body width: 80.5"

2006-2012 Ford Ranger body width: 69.4"
2019-up Ford Ranger: 72.8"

2005-2019 Nissan D40 Frontier/Xterra Width: 72.8"

2015-up Chevrolet Colorado Width: 74.3"

1995-2001 Ford Explorer Width: 70.2"
2002-2005 Ford Explorer Width: 72.1"
1997-2002 Ford Expedition Width: 78.6"
2003-2017 Ford Expedition Width: 78.8"

1996-2002 4Runner Width (limited): 70.9"
2003-2005 4Runner Width: 73.8"
2006-2009 4Runner Width: 75.2"
2010-present 4Runner Width: 75.8"
1992-1997 Toyota Landcruiser FJ80 Width: 76.0"
1998-2007 Toyota J100 Landcruiser Width: 76.4"
2008-present Toyota J200 Landcruiser width: 78.0"

1996-2006 Jeep Wrangler TJ Width: 66.7"-68.3"
2007-2018 Jeep Wrangler JK width: 73.7"-73.9"
2019-Present Jeep Wrangler JL width: 73.9"

Of course theres a lot of vehicles I missed and these widths no doubt aren't 100% correct, but just something to think about... Of course, width is only one factor, but it's an interesting one.

It also makes me realize that a GMT400 is barley wider then an FJ80 Landcruiser or new 4Runner... interesting.

good post / info. And you want to see fun stuff about tight clearances with a gmt800, go look @CrazyDrei 's build. Good times.
And that's another 'bonus' of older domestic full sizes, nobody should be too worried about beating them up a little. They don't cost a lot and they are still in their 'sweet spot' of common and affordable parts availability. If you can or don't mind doing your own wrench work, they're even more 'fun'.

The real potential 'downside' of these big beasts is their long wheelbases / high centering / approach and departure angles. But see above about damage and repairability

 

[CrazyDrei]

My two cents on body with of domestic trucks.

I have a 2000 Suburban 1500, 1.25" wheel spacers up front, 2" wheel spacers in rear, 45mm offset wheels, 37x12.5" tires on 8.5" rims. Not stock by any means. I have not measured my exact width but I know for a fact that my Ford Raptor bumper was sticking out 1.5" past the tires on both sides. So that would give me approximately 77" width. from outside to outside of tires.

These extra 6" are significant when compared to stock trucks like Ranger, Colorado, Explorer, grand Cherokee, Wrangler. However as my truck is setup none of those narrower vehicles are capable of getting to remote places I go in their stock form, aside from a Rubicon.

Once you start modifying say a Jeep JK or TJ, such as lift (wider control arms), wheels (wider wheels, tires, greater offset) you are at the same width if not wider than my 77" wide Suburban. As you continue building the Jeep more you will break that 80" width and will not be able to make it on the trails a narrower full size truck can.

It all comes down to what you have, where you are planning to take it and how much you want to modify it. Taking an X90 on Potato Salad is just as wise as running a Stewart and Stevenson on Moab Rim trail. Use common scene and improve your vehicle for trails that make you happy.

 

[cpabbey]

Yes, I read all 17 pages.....and thanks forall those interesting opinions. Here’s mine- I own both Fords and Toyotas and they’re both good, but different. I like driving my 96’ LC and I love my 19’ F-150.

I think there are just as many domestic trucks used for “overlanding” as there are 4-runners and LC’s, but the domestics aren’t advertised that way. Perception becomes reality.

I’m not getting rid of any of my vehicles, but I am looking for a mid 90’s F-150 for on/off road travels here in Idaho. A dedicated trip-camping rig that’s cheap to keep up and big enough to carry all of my stuff.

I look forward to more opinions.......

 

[XJLI]

You actually see 200 series Cruisers, LC Prado's (4runners) and Hilux's all over the place in Africa, Asia and Australia.
I think the real issue is that most "overlanders" on this forum have never been to those areas. I know from my trips to Africa, Asia and the Middle East, Toyota SUV's and 4x4's are all over the place....North American trucks, not so much.

Parts availability and dealer networks. Period. Is a modern Corolla more reliable than a VW Golf? Definitely. But the Golf has been the #1 selling car in Europe for years. Why? Parts availability and dealer network.

 

[TwinDuro]

My two cents on body with of domestic trucks.

I have a 2000 Suburban 1500, 1.25" wheel spacers up front, 2" wheel spacers in rear, 45mm offset wheels, 37x12.5" tires on 8.5" rims. Not stock by any means. I have not measured my exact width but I know for a fact that my Ford Raptor bumper was sticking out 1.5" past the tires on both sides. So that would give me approximately 77" width. from outside to outside of tires.

These extra 6" are significant when compared to stock trucks like Ranger, Colorado, Explorer, grand Cherokee, Wrangler. However as my truck is setup none of those narrower vehicles are capable of getting to remote places I go in their stock form, aside from a Rubicon.

Once you start modifying say a Jeep JK or TJ, such as lift (wider control arms), wheels (wider wheels, tires, greater offset) you are at the same width if not wider than my 77" wide Suburban. As you continue building the Jeep more you will break that 80" width and will not be able to make it on the trails a narrower full size truck can.

It all comes down to what you have, where you are planning to take it and how much you want to modify it. Taking an X90 on Potato Salad is just as wise as running a Stewart and Stevenson on Moab Rim trail. Use common scene and improve your vehicle for trails that make you happy.

Well said @CrazyDrei. That was something I failed to mentioned in my previous post so I’m happy you brought it up. Most vehicles aren’t left stock and the track width gets altered significantly, as you said. Your burb has really proved quite a few excellent points as you’ve built and used it... seems like a perfect rig for your needs.

I was talking about this very subject of domestic trucks compared to “X-perfect truck/SUV” with a buddy of mine and he stated “why wouldn’t they be durable and reliable? I wish you were able to see how these trucks were used by different government agencies for the last 50+ years. They’ve always been basically stock and beat to hell and back on a daily basis and have kept going. Forget about the negative Nancy’s and just go do it.”

... and that we will ??

 

[CrazyDrei]

Well said @CrazyDrei. That was something I failed to mentioned in my previous post so I’m happy you brought it up. Most vehicles aren’t left stock and the track width gets altered significantly, as you said. Your burb has really proved quite a few excellent points as you’ve built and used it... seems like a perfect rig for your needs.

I was talking about this very subject of domestic trucks compared to “X-perfect truck/SUV” with a buddy of mine and he stated “why wouldn’t they be durable and reliable? I wish you were able to see how these trucks were used by different government agencies for the last 50+ years. They’ve always been basically stock and beat to hell and back on a daily basis and have kept going. Forget about the negative Nancy’s and just go do it.”

... and that we will ??

TwinDuro,

Absolutely. There is also one other factor too, as you mentioned my Sub is perfect for my needs, however that is only because I have a family of 5. When I was single I lived out of a 1995 Nissan Pathfinder for a couple years traveling all over North America including amonth in Alaska. Today the Pathfinder would be as useful as my current Sub would have been 15 years ago. Ultimately its the fine balance point between: needs, wants, and ca$h.

I still firmly believe in run what you brung. Spend more time exploring than building. Its more effective to figure out what you need when you don't have it that to figure out what you have that you don't need.

 

[Ron B]

So, back to a part of this conversation that I haven't seen mentioned (or may have missed)... body width...
...this isn't a conversation about Nissans, it's about truck size. Here in the PNW (and other parts of North America), trails and logging roads can be tight and wider vehicles can be at a disadvantage.

Just went through this whole thread and enjoyed most of it. Definitely some good opinions and info to be heeded.

TwinDuro brings up a very important (and close to home) point - width. I am definitely in the minority as I wheel/play/camp/overland (sorry for the trigger word) in a hummer h1. Talk about a fat ass, the body is 6” wider than a suburban then add another 6 or 7” for the rock sliders. Luckily I am in the southwest and kind of a desert-rat so have a bit more room to play with. I have been toying with the idea of moving to something smaller that would make things easier and more trails accessible so truck width has definitely been on my mind.

Fat-ass aside the truck is a blast and really fun to wheel. It’s easy to work on, very stable and tons (literally) of payload. Sure it has it’s quirks and wheeling something as wide as a firetruck can be challenging but the damn thing makes me smile — which is the whole point.

It hurts my soul to see so many decked out yet perfectly clean and pristine looking vehicles cruising around town (of all makes) but perhaps if they realized how cool it was in the dirt they’d clog up the trails and we’d have to go even farther to get away.

 

[ttengineer]

I haven’t checked, but I doubt a 200 series is any less girthy than a Tahoe, Explorer, or any other full size american rig.

I’m sure there is a difference but I would be surprised if it’s over 6”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ron B]

I haven’t checked, but I doubt a 200 series is any less girthy than a Tahoe, Explorer, or any other full size american rig.

I’m sure there is a difference but I would be surprised if it’s over 6”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

on the previous page TwinDuro made a nice list to compare...he has the 200 series on there as 78” which is an inch or two less than the Tahoe

 

[Overlandtowater]

Its all perception they are all ment to be parked by the soccer mom in the same size parking garages every where. My suburban is not near as big as people act like it is. I had a guy on a recent trip in a 100 series tell me there was no way my suburban would go down the same trail he could squeeze down. I pulled my sub from around the building and parked next to him and without getting a tape out you couldn't see the difference. I think it was like 1.5 to 2" on width and lenght wasn't that far off either. The suburban would turn sharper though.

 

[Ron B]

Its all perception they are all ment to be parked by the soccer mom in the same size parking garages every where. My suburban is not near as big as people act like it is.

I know exactly what you mean. Mine is extremely wide at 92” but shorter than a Camry — with rear spare its still over a foot shorter than my colorado. We do pay the price on some twists and turns and narrow spots on trails though.

 

[lilkia]

Yep and after 500,000km the lancruiser owner needed a spinal fusion while the chevy owner had sore feet from walking a few miles .........once.

Helluva point ?


Somehow we have yet another Toyota fanclub thread in the Domestic section. Is owning a great and mighty Yota really that boring without internet connection?

How else would the rest of the world know they own one unless they tell the rest of the world every freeking time they can?

 

[calicamper]

My 07 Sequoia vs my 2019 Expedition they are nearly identical front to back. Expedition is wider but can pull a Uturn nearly as well as my Subaru. The Sequoia not so much

 

[MTVR]

Why is it whenever I see the word "overlanding" I picture some skinny jean wearing, bad IPA swilling, twisted mustache, round glasses, flannel wearing, Wheres Waldo looking ************?

If you want to get technical everytime you drive anywhere in anything you are "overlanding". You are driving over the land. It is a **************** word used to make losers feel like they belong to some secret club. Does it get used here to make the people that never really go on a true "expedition" feel like they truly belong? I mean I get that. Outside of the military I dont think Ive ever truly been on an "expedition". Ive spent weeks at a time both on foot and with a vehicle in the back country, living on what I or we carried with us. Some voluntary some voluntold, still, not what I would consider an "expedition".

Im not here because I see myself as some kind of great explorer needing to share my adventures. Im here to glean some good technical advice and maybe share some of the same from decades of wrenching, and building and what works and what breaks and what is plain overkill. Im also here to look at, some, cool trucks. Anymore its seems like a SEMA show with a bunch of overbuilt vehicles loaded with crap that will never get a good dusting let alone actually dirty offroad. BUT they have really cool "Overlander" stickers on them and apparently thats what counts.

I generally dont get bothered or even pay attention to trendy pop culture crap, but I would really like to ********** slap whomever coined the term "Overland". Not to mention it sounds like some half baked overly and unnecessarily dramatic Netflix made series full of Millenial angst with either witches or zombies. Probably zombies maybe a vampire. Maybe this can be the one where the nonbinary individual can be torn between loving a half rotted walking corpse or a water starved merperson while camping in the post Covid high desert? Or did they do that one already?

You could say that...

 

[MTVR]

I am 37 ( technicaly millennial )
education, masters,
Speak 5 languages
Self made millionaire.

Not every millennial Is a ************...

Well, you've certainly established that you're "Not every millennial"...