Why are other full size SUV's not used in overlanding/offroading as often as Forerunner/Landcruiser?

[MTVR]

So this was the video that made Sabine Schmitz famous. She was already a very successful professional racing driver at the Nurburgring, when she was contracted by the television show Top Gear, to coach the star, Jeremy Clarkson, to a 9:59 lap of the Nordschleife. She was so frustrated by the experience, that she made an off-hand comment that she could do that lap time in a van.

So Top Gear took her up on her challenge. They provided her a 4-cylinder diesel van with 136 horsepower, capable of 0-60 in 21 seconds, and this is the result:


In contrast to what you see in the video, the Viper was not there for the van to draft- it was there to clear traffic so that the van wouldn't have to slow down.

 

[MTVR]

This is Sabine's story:


We stayed in Hotel am Tiergarten, which is owned by Sabine and her mom and is located above the famous Restaurant Pistenklause. She has a sister that looks a lot like her, and a big fuzzy dog that sleeps in the middle of the street in front of the hotel.

 

[MTVR]

This is an experienced Nordschleife driver in a Porsche 911 GT3 track day car, trying to keep up with Sabine in a BMW M5 4-door sedan with three passengers:


She goes airborne at Pflanzgarten at about 8:05, and then gets big air at about 8:20.

 

[Todd780]

Sooo.... how about those overlanding SUV's?

 

[ExplorerTom]

My fullsize American (made in Mexico..) overlander is sitting around in the garage succumbing to the battery imposed upon it by entropy, because we as a society have decided that the safest place for a ship is the harbor and that's where we will keep them until we all die of old age.

Uh, National Forests are open. Go. Camp.

 

[ExplorerTom]

Then get out and travel. The world is still turning.

 

[beef tits]

Toyota has this game covered simply due to consistent reliability, and much better mechanical design and build quality in my opinion. I've owned 20+ high mileage trucks in my life and Toyota is the way to go. I would buy a used 300k mile Toyota over a used 100k mile Ford any day of the week. Several Tundras have been documented hitting over 1,000,000 miles with barely any issues the whole time.

There are definitely reliable Fords out there, Chevy's and Dodge too... but finding one is a crapshoot. Toyotas are CONSISTENTLY reliable. My 7.3 Ford was the biggest pile of ******** I ever owned. Design flaws out the ass. Any oil leak on the top side and the clutch would get soaked because this dips hits put the valley drain hole right over the flywheel. Any U-Joint or driveshaft issue and the transfer case would wobble and crack the transmission. Terrible mounting design. In 30k miles I had that transmission out 5 times. Two cracked transmissions. 3 soaked clutches. Tens of thousands of dollars pissed away because Ford engineers are just ************** morons. I will never buy another Ford in my life after owning that thing and I don't hear much better things about the newer ones. Warranty's are great but with Toyota, you practically don't even need one.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Toyota has this game covered simply due to consistent reliability, and much better mechanical design and build quality in my opinion. I've owned 20+ high mileage trucks in my life and Toyota is the way to go. I would buy a used 300k mile Toyota over a used 100k mile Ford any day of the week. Several Tundras have been documented hitting over 1,000,000 miles with barely any issues the whole time.

There are definitely reliable Fords out there, Chevy's and Dodge too... but finding one is a crapshoot. Toyotas are CONSISTENTLY reliable. My 7.3 Ford was the biggest pile of **** I ever owned. Design flaws out the ass. Any oil leak on the top side and the clutch would get soaked because this dips hits put the valley drain hole right over the flywheel. Any U-Joint or driveshaft issue and the transfer case would wobble and crack the transmission. Terrible mounting design. In 30k miles I had that transmission out 5 times. Two cracked transmissions. 3 soaked clutches. Tens of thousands of dollars pissed away because Ford engineers are just ************** morons. I will never buy another Ford in my life after owning that thing and I don't hear much better things about the newer ones. Warranty's are great but with Toyota, you practically don't even need one.

The 7.3 was neither designed or built by Ford... and yes they love to mark their territory.

Never heard of the transfer case wobble thing, that is a new one on me. The ZF-5 is a pretty good trans and same goes for the t-cases of the era.

Right now I have a 150k Ford in my garage (which admittedly I have extensively modified although with mostly salvage components) and my wife's 250k Ford is parked next to my 185k mile Ford daily driver in my driveway. They have done me right. Aside from the current styling fads (nobody makes a truck I really like the looks of) and pricing I have no reason not to buy another Ford if I wanted to.

 

[beef tits]

The 7.3 was neither designed or built by Ford... and yes they love to mark their territory.

Neither was the ZF-5, ZF-6 that cracked in half... or any of the Borg warner Transfer cases that explode if you use the wrong fluid. Ford doesn’t make a lot of things. They do, however, have terrible engineers who decide to spec all these ************ components from half ass American shops. The quality inconsistency is a problem with all American auto makers. It’s systemic. They build garbage.

Congrats on your truck. Hope it runs forever. Like I said, some you might get a good one, or a bad one depending who assembled it.

My Tundra was built in the US using mostly Japanese, but some American parts. Guess which ones have needed replaced?

 

[mountainsports2002]

Toyota has this game covered simply due to consistent reliability, and much better mechanical design and build quality in my opinion. I've owned 20+ high mileage trucks in my life and Toyota is the way to go. I would buy a used 300k mile Toyota over a used 100k mile Ford any day of the week. Several Tundras have been documented hitting over 1,000,000 miles with barely any issues the whole time.

There are definitely reliable Fords out there, Chevy's and Dodge too... but finding one is a crapshoot. Toyotas are CONSISTENTLY reliable. My 7.3 Ford was the biggest pile of **** I ever owned. Design flaws out the ass. Any oil leak on the top side and the clutch would get soaked because this dips hits put the valley drain hole right over the flywheel. Any U-Joint or driveshaft issue and the transfer case would wobble and crack the transmission. Terrible mounting design. In 30k miles I had that transmission out 5 times. Two cracked transmissions. 3 soaked clutches. Tens of thousands of dollars pissed away because Ford engineers are just ************** morons. I will never buy another Ford in my life after owning that thing and I don't hear much better things about the newer ones. Warranty's are great but with Toyota, you practically don't even need one.

Except when your frame rusts in half.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

Found a durable, reliable, and spacious domestic SUV for overlanding:

 

[justbecause]

Neither was the ZF-5, ZF-6 that cracked in half... or any of the Borg warner Transfer cases that explode if you use the wrong fluid. Ford doesn’t make a lot of things. They do, however, have terrible engineers who decide to spec all these ************ components from half ass American shops. The quality inconsistency is a problem with all American auto makers. It’s systemic. They build garbage.

Congrats on your truck. Hope it runs forever. Like I said, some you might get a good one, or a bad one depending who assembled it.

My Tundra was built in the US using mostly Japanese, but some American parts. Guess which ones have needed replaced?

The transmission, the bake master cylinder?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Neither was the ZF-5, ZF-6 that cracked in half... or any of the Borg warner Transfer cases that explode if you use the wrong fluid. Ford doesn’t make a lot of things. They do, however, have terrible engineers who decide to spec all these ************ components from half ass American shops. The quality inconsistency is a problem with all American auto makers. It’s systemic. They build garbage.

Congrats on your truck. Hope it runs forever. Like I said, some you might get a good one, or a bad one depending who assembled it.

My Tundra was built in the US using mostly Japanese, but some American parts. Guess which ones have needed replaced?

So things can break if you use the wrong fluid? That is a heck of a newsflash. It is too bad they don't spec something every gas station in the US has on the shelf... like ATF.

Fun fact: newer Tundras have a Borg-Warner t-case that takes a weird straight 75w oil. Not ATF like what is readily available EVERYWHERE, not 80/90 like what is avialable EVERYWHERE and used in older domestic transfer cases.

And the Tundra t-case is made at the same Borg Warner plant in the United States of America as Ford and Ram...

Tornado-Damaged Plant Is Building Ford, Ram, Toyota Truck Transfer Cases Again

The BorgWarner factory that supplies the components was hit by a tornado in early April.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[Over The Silent Planet]

My take on the OP, as someone who owns both full size domestics (02 Suburban, 12 Yukon XL) and a 5th Gen 4Runner:

I think it comes down to Toyota’s marketing, design, and the general reliability to back it up. My 4Runner is an ANCIENT design by today’s standards. It has a 5 speed automatic for crying out loud. But it is simple, rugged, and will last forever with bare minimum maintenance. It’s extremely easy to mod or maintain. The only head scratcher is the cartridge oil filter. Having never worked on a vehicle’s suspension before, I was able to easily replace the suspension all the way around and the UCAs up front by myself. Things are just laid out really well with the obvious intention being ease of maintenance. I really appreciate that.

We love our Yukon XL as well, but man, working on it can be a chore. One example: I have to remove an exhaust hanger and use a ratchet strap to pull the exhaust pipe out of the way just far enough to drop the trans oil pan. It’s stuff like that that is highly prevalent in the domestics. The inclination toward ease of self-maintenance just isn’t there.

Also, and I know this raises some hackles, it is objectively true that Toyotas are generally more reliable. Your anecdotal experience doesn’t change that. That reliability comes from extremely long generations with their vehicles (we’re on 2010+ 4Runners and 2007+ Tundras (2014 was NOT a new gen)). They are exactly as more reliable than the domestics as they are behind the domestics in tech/features.

My grandpa is a Ford man (he has a 2001 short bed F350 with the 7.3L and under 200k on the clock which I keep asking to buy from him), and my dad has always been a GM guy. I appreciate them all. For off-roading and exploring, the 4Runner just makes a ton of sense for us. Yes, it’s a dinosaur that gets atrocious gas mileage. But it will get my family in and out of anywhere we want to go.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Plenty fo documented cases of super duty transfer cases literally exploding due to using the wrong generation of ATF. There is a TSB on it snd the manuals that came with the trucks were unclear. This never happened to me but I read about it numerous times.

Dogshit. Poorly designed dogshit.

Ram uses the same NP-271 or NP-273 t-case as a Super Duty.

The book for our '04 here at work calls for Mercon. They kinda horsed around with new formulations of Mercon but it isn't that hard to call the dealer and ask. Mercon V was bad, they made a special "Transfer Case Fluid" during that time which was GTG but they saw the error of their ways of having two fluids and a bunch of manuals that were wrong and now I think Mercon LV is the juice of choice if you gotta stay Ford.

I think over the counter "dex-merc" has been GTG all along for transfer cases. It is what I have used in my older t-cases that called for ATF and I never had a problem. The only Ford oil I use is engine oil from wally-world...

I kinda agree though, I don't like special fluids and I think Mercon V was a mistake.