Why aren't more tacoma owners up in arms about their trucks?

[Sam Odio]

I switched from Land Rover (owned everything from a Defender to LR2) last year and bought a new 2018 Tacoma Off-road. I've since learned that Tacomas have:

1. oil lubrication issues when ascending hills that lead to low oil pressure / engine burning oil / even a thrown rod
2. can hydrolock after going throw shallow water & toyota doesn't publish spec "fording depths" like Jeep & Land Rover

These seem like big issues - the first led to me blowing the engine in my Taco...I'm pretty surprised there isn't more online about them. I wish I knew about them before buying my truck. Is this just a fluke? Or do Taco owners not ford water / ascend steep hills? How does Toyota get away with branding a truck "off road" but not publishing an acceptable fording depth?

I'm hoping this won't turn into a flame-fest...but I'm sure it will. I'm honestly just very confused and frustrated...so frustrated I've put my story online (neverbuyatacomaoffroad.com). I'm hoping others will learn from my mistake. I don't know what else to do. If I keep the truck I'll buy a snorkel of course, but that won't fix issue #1.

 

[OverlandNA]

I wouldn't buy a Taco because they are repeat offenders with frame problems. Figure they should have learned the 1st time.

 

[bkg]

Some folks will state your claims of problems are irrelevant, overblown and false...

 

[DaveInDenver]

Some folks will state your claims of problems are irrelevant, overblown and false...

To some extent they are, at least the first one. Every engine can oil starve at some angle or given enough time. If it's not ascending it may be in a descent or turn. Our engines are not aircraft engines that can run in any orientation.

So whether the current engines are worse than older engines, I don't know. You can cook a 22R at too high of an angle and it's agreed to be a "bulletproof" engine.

Toyota knows the maximum operating angles as do Rover and Jeep and GM and Ford. I doubt the 1GR has a fundamental issue, it's used globally. Perhaps the 2GR in the 3rd gen being sourced from a Camry is different, but I don't know that the oil pan and pickup are the same as the Camry either.

Maybe it is a design flaw but from 100,000 feet to say it's either a major issue or a nonissue can't be known without statistics and failure data. People buying trucks 15 years ago knew stuff like this and I think had a better feeling about how not to abuse their machines. They're also selling a ton more Tacomas annually than they ever sold Hiluxes or 1st gen Tacos, so the absolute number of failures might be higher but not proportionally higher to the number sold.

The lack of stated fording depth is hokey. Toyota in N.A. doesn't seem to want to be seen as a legitimate truck company that might give clear and unambiguous specifications and capacities. But that's also understandable because it's not easy to define an exact safe depth in a stock truck with its intake in the fender as it might be with a raised intake.

So the "safe" depth is probably hub high (and would market terribly) but the real world depth could be higher. Is there a standard definition for fording depth?

FWIW the frame corrosion b.s. is why this will be my first and last Tacoma. And I'm a serious Toyota fanboy. I'll buy an older truck if I have to but not another Tacoma unless they do some serious rethinking about their direction. Which I know they don't care, they sell them as fast as they make them, so why should they care?

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Maybe it is a design flaw but from 100,000 feet to say it's either a major issue or a nonissue can't be known without statistics and failure data. People buying trucks 15 years ago knew stuff like this and I think had a better feeling about how not to abuse their machines. They're also selling a ton more Tacomas annually than they ever sold Hiluxes or 1st gen Tacos, so the absolute number of failures might be higher but not proportionally higher to the number sold.

I almost totally agree with you, with one caveat on the statistics part. The Tacoma is an excellent mid-sized pickup truck that meets the needs of 99% of people who need a small truck. The overwhelming majority of them never leave pavement -- even the TRD packages -- just like the majority of Wranglers are driven in cities where 4WD is never needed. For this reason, overall reliability of a model for the overlanding context is tough to pin down. A Taco may be 99% reliable for 99% of owners, but if that 99% of owners only ever drives on clean roads in the city, it doesn't tell us much about how good/reliable it is off road.

That being said it's a perfectly fine truck for Overlanding, and lots of people use them in that capacity without any problems. I would say that the warnings about oil starvation are worth digging into -- there are plenty of paved hills, after all, so even general stats on that would be very informative. However, I wouldn't be worried about fording depth. My general rule of thumb is what you said -- Hub Depth. Unless you've gone through and waterproofed your rig (or paid a premium to have someone else do it), don't wade higher than the hubs. Hydrolocking is only one problem, which of course a snorkel can help prevent -- assuming it's a real snorkel that fully seals the airbag, not a cheap "Expo Aesthetic" one from Ebay -- but the electrics are FAR more vulnerable to water issues, and just as likely to shut down a rig when they go wrong as hydro locking is.

 

[DCGibbs]

I switched from Land Rover (owned everything from a Defender to LR2) last year and bought a new 2019 Tacoma Off-road. I've since learned that Tacomas have:

1. oil lubrication issues when ascending hills that lead to low oil pressure / engine burning oil / even a thrown rod
2. can hydrolock after going throw shallow water & toyota doesn't publish spec "fording depths" like Jeep & Land Rover

These seem like big issues - the first led to me blowing the engine in my Taco...I'm pretty surprised there isn't more online about them. I wish I knew about them before buying my truck. Is this just a fluke? Or do Taco owners not ford water / ascend steep hills? How does Toyota get away with branding a truck "off road" but not publishing an acceptable fording depth?

I'm hoping this won't turn into a flame-fest...but I'm sure it will. I'm honestly just very confused and frustrated...so frustrated I've put my story online (neverbuyatacomaoffroad.com). I'm hoping others will learn from my mistake. I don't know what else to do. If I keep the truck I'll buy a snorkel of course, but that won't fix issue #1.

Sam,
I am sorry to hear of your issues. We have a 2018 Tacoma DC, SB, TRD_OffRoad, it's got roughly 8000's miles on it since we bought it. First two items installed were Diff Breather extenders, and Rock Sliders. I always check Oil Level, and Coolant before heading out. It will be in 4 Wheel Low and Crawl Mode this weekend. We only ford water "if we have too" - As a Fly-fisherman I really hate the damage done to the stream by crossing it is a vehicle.
Our 88 62 Series LandCruiser has 311000 miles on the original engine, it too has extended Diff breathers.
Gibbs

 

[Sam Odio]

To some extent they are, at least the first one. Every engine can oil starve at some angle or given enough time. If it's not ascending it may be in a descent or turn. Our engines are not aircraft engines that can run in any orientation.

DaveInDenver - this is true, the question is how does the Tacoma perform compared to other trucks.

I still have no "spec" on a safe hill climb. Something like this for the LR3: "The ascent/descent gradients are list as 35°/35° 'continuous' and 45°/45° 'drive through.'"

Tacoma's "spec" seems much lower than that - but they don't publish it. I've seen the low oil pressure warning light after parking downhill at 10 degrees or so.

I blew the Taco engine at 40 degrees or so doing a hill climb I've done many times in the LR3. When I took it into the dealership Toyota's position is: "this is not a warranty repair, it's a one time favor to replace your engine." which is kind and everything, but makes the truck worthless to me since I don't know what a safe hill climb looks like.

A Taco may be 99% reliable for 99% of owners, but if that 99% of owners only ever drives on clean roads in the city, it doesn't tell us much about how good/reliable it is off road.

ChasingOurTrunks - yah I think this is exactly the situation I've faced. I would've hoped these issues would be covered in a magazine like Overland Journal, though. Generally, they have only said good things about the Taco, which is part of the reason why I bought the truck.

First two items installed were Diff Breather extenders, and Rock Sliders.

DCGibbs - yes agreed on the diff breather. It was a calculated decision to ford once without one. As an aside, LR3s have them stock (it's all part of making a commitment that the truck can make it through 20 inches).

 

[Deleted member 9101]

1st rule of owning a Toyota: Toyotas are gods gift to the automotive world, thus they are perfect in every way.

2nd rule of owning a Toyota: If anything goes wrong, its 100% your fault and no other Toyota has suffered the same fate.

 

[Martyn]

I'm not personally a big fan of the Tacoma, to me it seems they took a very capable Hilux and softened it to the point its better suited to on road use. To make the vehicle off road capable takes thousands of dollars of after market parts, and them you still have to deal with a light load capacity, soft rear leaf springs and an over flexible chassis. But remember these are the words of a man who drives a 2001 Ford F250 and I'm not a Land Rover fan either.

 

[DaveInDenver]

they took a very capable Hilux and softened it to the point its better suited to on road use.

This statement has been true since the 1960s, when trucks were trucks and our lower backs shortened with each ride over a rough road in one.

Particular to Toyota mini trucks (which kind of owe their existence to the softening of the FJ40 into the FJ60 and FJ62 leaving a hole for a basic truck) started as solid axle trucks with 4 speeds and fork lift motors that gained a longer cab then EFI then torsion bar IFS then air conditioning then V6 then power windows and cruise control, buckets seats and then coil spring IFS and so on.

So manufacturers tailoring their trucks for ever more use as road vehicles didn't start in 2016 with the 3rd gen Tacoma.

Not to mention Toyota didn't sell us lockers, which means they expected some sort of use off highway, until 1995 so how were those earlier trucks so "overlandy" in the first place? They weren't, we made them into the trucks we needed.

 

[perterra]

DaveInDenver - this is true, the question is how does the Tacoma perform compared to other trucks.

I still have no "spec" on a safe hill climb. Something like this for the LR3: "The ascent/descent gradients are list as 35°/35° 'continuous' and 45°/45° 'drive through.'"

Tacoma's "spec" seems much lower than that - but they don't publish it. I've seen the low oil pressure warning light after parking downhill at 10 degrees or so.

I blew the Taco engine at 40 degrees or so doing a hill climb I've done many times in the LR3. When I took it into the dealership Toyota's position is: "this is not a warranty repair, it's a one time favor to replace your engine." which is kind and everything, but makes the truck worthless to me since I don't know what a safe hill climb looks like.


ChasingOurTrunks - yah I think this is exactly the situation I've faced. I would've hoped these issues would be covered in a magazine like Overland Journal, though. Generally, they have only said good things about the Taco, which is part of the reason why I bought the truck.


DCGibbs - yes agreed on the diff breather. It was a calculated decision to ford once without one. As an aside, LR3s have them stock (it's all part of making a commitment that the truck can make it through 20 inches).

I guess you can look around at satisfied high mileage Land Rover owners and satisfied high mileage Tacoma owners and decide if the Tacoma is as bad as you think.

So what are the safe hill climb specs for other manufactures?

 

[DaveInDenver]

I almost totally agree with you, with one caveat on the statistics part. The Tacoma is an excellent mid-sized pickup truck that meets the needs of 99% of people who need a small truck. The overwhelming majority of them never leave pavement -- even the TRD packages -- just like the majority of Wranglers are driven in cities where 4WD is never needed. For this reason, overall reliability of a model for the overlanding context is tough to pin down. A Taco may be 99% reliable for 99% of owners, but if that 99% of owners only ever drives on clean roads in the city, it doesn't tell us much about how good/reliable it is off road.

I agree to your point, it is valid. But can we also agree that Toyota, and all companies in the U.S., are not selling us Unimogs or tractors. They are and have always sold us a road car. It more that we got lucky for a number of years that Toyota does sell cars designed to travel poor global roads and they decided to sell them here, too.

By the early 1990s it was clear we didn't really need that much truck just for the 99% reason you cite. Even back then guys hacked and modified those global trucks to suit them so it would not surprise me if that wasn't in the back of their minds when designing the Tacoma. It IS an improved truck on the road, comfortable, quiet, etc.

They figured (rightly I think) that the 1% of serious users would hack half the stock crap off and beef it up anyway, so why should they continue to over-build a truck with much unused capability like they had been up to 1995? The margin between good enough for 99% and the 1% who tube chassis the back half is where we live, so we're a small number that are disappointed in some of the lost ruggedness.

 

[toylandcruiser]

Some folks will state your claims of problems are irrelevant, overblown and false...

Aaawww the troll can’t control himself.

 

[Sam Odio]

I guess you can look around at satisfied high mileage Land Rover owners and satisfied high mileage Tacoma owners and decide if the Tacoma is as bad as you think.

perterra - Land Rovers have a reputation for not being reliable, which is why I bought a Tacoma. I get that. I don't question that a Tacoma is more reliable on-road...I'm wondering - is it reliable in the dirt. Do 3rd gen Tacoma owners off-road their trucks? Why are they letting Toyota get away without a spec hill climb ascent angle or fording depth?

So what are the safe hill climb specs for other manufactures?

Land Rover publishes them, and I suspect others do to. For example: LR3 spec from Land Rover website. < If you drive a Tacoma at those angles (as I did) you'll blow the engine.

Also, you're forgetting wading depth, which Toyota also doesn't publish.

 

[Sam Odio]

A Taco may be 99% reliable for 99% of owners, but if that 99% of owners only ever drives on clean roads in the city, it doesn't tell us much about how good/reliable it is off road.

ChasingOurTrunks - Man, I keep coming back to that. So right.

It grinds my gears that Tacoma knows its drivers won't off-road its trucks so it can get away with this stuff. The company seems to just care about how the truck looks. They put a "TRD Off-Road" sticker on the side of a truck, beefy tires on it, and called it a day. Someone needs to call BS on that marketing strategy.

I spent $40k and I bought an off-road package. Sure, I could invest in after-market parts (though none exist for the oil lubrication issue on hill climbs). But should I have to? There are other options and other brands where, when I buy an off-road truck, I'd get an off-road truck.