Why buy a land cruiser?

T-Willy

Well-known member
Trouble is finding a good, clean 25 yo commercial rig that hasn't been beat.....while not spending $25k for it. Brand new Cruisers are ~$50-60k USD based on current values in Aus and exchange rate, if we could buy for that, then pay the $5k for shipping....we'd see how many guys would put their money where their mouths are when then can pay same price (or less) for new F250 Tremor

I would buy a new 76 at the drop of a hat.

Comparisons between U.S. domestic trucks and 80S and 70S Land Cruisers are of limited value. I've eyed domestic trucks for years as a replacement for 80S Land Cruiser, but I can't get past how comparatively huge (long and wide bodies and wheel positions) and less nimble or capable those trucks would be in tight off road conditions.

This was affirmed for me again recently on a 12-day desert trip (carrying the trip's worth of food and nearly all its water); a full-sized truck, while payload capable, would have been challenged (and badly scratched, and possibly damaged) matching what was easy access for Land Cruiser.

What makes Land Cruiser 80 unique is its combination of modest size, jeep-like nimbleness, excellent durability and reliability, passenger capacity, and nearly one-ton payload. Most people don't appreciate or need that combination. But if you do, there's not much else out there that ticks all of those boxes.

At the end of the day, I'd rather a monthly budget for diligent PM on the Land Cruiser than a monthly payment on a new domestic truck.
 

nickw

Adventurer
I would buy a new 76 at the drop of a hat.

Comparisons between U.S. domestic trucks and 80S and 70S Land Cruisers are of limited value. I've eyed domestic trucks for years as a replacement for 80S Land Cruiser, but I can't get past how comparatively huge (long and wide bodies and wheel positions) and less nimble or capable those trucks would be in tight off road conditions.

This was affirmed for me again recently on a 12-day desert trip (carrying the trip's worth of food and nearly all its water); a full-sized truck, while payload capable, would have been challenged (and badly scratched, and possibly damaged) matching what was easy access for Land Cruiser.

What makes Land Cruiser 80 unique is its combination of modest size, jeep-like nimbleness, excellent durability and reliability, passenger capacity, and nearly one-ton payload. Most people don't appreciate or need that combination. But if you do, there's not much else out there that ticks all of those boxes.

At the end of the day, I'd rather a monthly budget for diligent PM on the Land Cruiser than a monthly payment on a new domestic truck.
You are one of FEW that would then.....if we are honest, a use case of high payload and dimensionally small vehicle is very limited. There are rigs much better suited for offroad (Bronco & Jeep) and much better at weight carrying (full size trucks) and much better and comfort over long distances (#vanlife or truck + camper), it's a niche for sure. You can compound that niche 10x when we are dealing with a 1HZ engine that has less power than a KTM 1190 adventure bike and none of the interior amenities of a modern rig....

I just kinda think that guys with the disposable income will go out and buy a modern LR / LC200 or a big diesel truck and be done with it.

Guys like yourself are enthusiasts (who presumably have money) & plan to work the vehicle, very very few and far between.

It's important to ignore the vehicle values for dubious reasons, that by itself would get folks to purchase them and resell them to other folks....kinda like a NFT, which is exactly what I'd expect to happen if Toyota ever sold them here, massive ADM's, sold to socialites and #instagramers in LA and NYC vs folks (like you) who understand what it is your are buying and why.
 

toylandcruiser

Expedition Leader
You are one of FEW that would then.....if we are honest, a use case of high payload and dimensionally small vehicle is very limited. There are rigs much better suited for offroad (Bronco & Jeep) and much better at weight carrying (full size trucks) and much better and comfort over long distances (#vanlife or truck + camper), it's a niche for sure. You can compound that niche 10x when we are dealing with a 1HZ engine that has less power than a KTM 1190 adventure bike and none of the interior amenities of a modern rig....

I just kinda think that guys with the disposable income will go out and buy a modern LR / LC200 or a big diesel truck and be done with it.

Guys like yourself are enthusiasts (who presumably have money) & plan to work the vehicle, very very few and far between.

It's important to ignore the vehicle values for dubious reasons, that by itself would get folks to purchase them and resell them to other folks....kinda like a NFT, which is exactly what I'd expect to happen if Toyota ever sold them here, massive ADM's, sold to socialites and #instagramers in LA and NYC vs folks (like you) who understand what it is your are buying and why.

The quality difference between a land cruiser and anything domestic is a night and day difference. 99.9% of people in this country do not need a 3/4 or higher truck. They just want it because they think they need it. I would take a 70 series Ina Herat beat over anything domestic.
 

nickw

Adventurer
The quality difference between a land cruiser and anything domestic is a night and day difference. 99.9% of people in this country do not need a 3/4 or higher truck. They just want it because they think they need it. I would take a 70 series Ina Herat beat over anything domestic.
There is a build quality difference between a Rolex and a Casio too, but if your goal is defined as ability to keep time, either will do just as good, if we are honest Casio may win. If you change to goal to having a watch that is going to last 25 years reliably, maybe the Rolex starts to make more sense.

I bet less people need a LC70 than a 3/4+ truck...to be honest, especially when you factor it lifestyle, price and ability to do work on them...again, it's gotta be an enthusiast with the desire to live with 1970's technology and work to get the thing maintained. I fall into this category, I love LC70's, but besides the emotion around them, it doesn't do anything for me a cheaper, easier to maintain, sim mpg, more comfortable, higher capacity, more room and reliable ENOUGH 3/4 won't....
 

toylandcruiser

Expedition Leader
The same could be said about your emotion for domestic 3/4 on and above. Or cars in trucks in general. That’s not a valid point. Once again I would own a 76 series station wagon. It would suit me better than my gx. You can’t tell me that’s not a good choice as it’s what would suit me
 

nickw

Adventurer
The same could be said about your emotion for domestic 3/4 on and above. Or cars in trucks in general. That’s not a valid point. Once again I would own a 76 series station wagon. It would suit me better than my gx. You can’t tell me that’s not a good choice as it’s what would suit me
I didn't say 'you', I was careful not too, but just think people need to be honest with wants vs needs, you are not typical but for most people a 70 wouldn't make sense....that was my point, not that they are not awesome rigs (they are).

Myself and many others do not get emotionally involved in vehicles, my decision to buy a 3/4t was 100% driven by requirements / need: 4x4, 6.5' bed, 4 door, 2500+ payload, 10k towing, ....I bought the rig that was the best value that met those needs, I didn't necessarily care about color, options, etc...ended up with the first one I found, a 3/4T Dodge Tradesman w/gas motor, not sexy & not the right call for everybody. I don't need 35's, I don't need lockers, extra lights, special stuff....

If your use case requires utmost reliability, you need 25 years worth of field use, you need small vehicle with large payload, you have the skill and ability to work on them (or can pay a specialty shop to do it).....more power to you, not my business, but a very niche use case....which is why Toyota doesn't sell them here.
 

T-Willy

Well-known member
Good discussion--and I would argue a fair amount of vigorous agreement.

Another reason I would buy a beautiful new 76 if I could (in addition to its small size and large payload) is the simple fact of its durability and reliability. I don't like or want to do lots of PM; of course, if I have to I will. But, our first 80 series required little more than tires, wipers, and routine maintenance for its first two decades of service. For me, this is far more valuable than (costly and obsolescence-prone) modern interior tech or heaps of modern power. And this is to say nothing of unapparelled peace of mind for remote touring.

hzj76-rkmrs-G1.jpg
 

nickw

Adventurer
Good discussion--and I would argue a fair amount of vigorous agreement.

Another reason I would buy a beautiful new 76 if I could (in addition to its small size and large payload) is the simple fact of its durability and reliability. I don't like or want to do lots of PM; of course, if I have to I will. But, our first 80 series required little more than tires, wipers, and routine maintenance for its first two decades of service. For me, this is far more valuable than (costly and obsolescence-prone) modern interior tech or heaps of modern power. And this is to say nothing of unapparelled peace of mind for remote touring.

hzj76-rkmrs-G1.jpg
So beautiful!! I think the caveat here domestically though is if the US government *allowed* us to import a brand new 76 like you have there....Toyota dealerships wouldn't be able to work on them so you'd a) be n your own or b) you'd have to use a specialty cruiser shop if you had any issues.

Would you get the 1HZ?
 

Regcabguy

Oil eater.
Good discussion--and I would argue a fair amount of vigorous agreement.

Another reason I would buy a beautiful new 76 if I could (in addition to its small size and large payload) is the simple fact of its durability and reliability. I don't like or want to do lots of PM; of course, if I have to I will. But, our first 80 series required little more than tires, wipers, and routine maintenance for its first two decades of service. For me, this is far more valuable than (costly and obsolescence-prone) modern interior tech or heaps of modern power. And this is to say nothing of unapparelled peace of mind for remote touring.

hzj76-rkmrs-G1.jpg
Nice year and color. Square is better.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
You are one of FEW that would then.....if we are honest, a use case of high payload and dimensionally small vehicle is very limited.

I don't think your overall point is wrong about it being a small market, but I think especially in this community, that market is important. The use case described here is the vast majority of Overland travellers, and they aren't super well served by what is available in North America. Candidly, I don't think they are served by the Land Cruiser either, neither the 300 series nor the now-gone 200 series as both have similar "luxury bloat" problems.

All of our current offerings here represent some kind of significant and limiting compromise for the use case you described. If you want decent payload (i.e. 1 ton), it comes with a big footprint of a full size or larger truck (and most full sized trucks are not that great in payload, either, until you go to the HD series, which just makes the footprint problem worse). If you want something nimble and great off road and more "mid-sized", it comes with low payload (~1300-1500 lbs max). That doesn't go far if you've got camping gear, supplies, armour to protect the vehicle, and more than one passenger.

When I think of a touring rig, I want high payload, mid-sized, safe, and reliable.

Payload: I want to be able to bring extra fuel and water so I can explore with my family at my leisure far away from populated places. I want the payload to bring along some "Creature comforts" so that after 30 days on the road I'm not fed up of feeling roots in my back at night and smelling like a Sasquatch all day. And of course, I want to travel with my dogs, wife, and kid (who I also don't want smelling like Sasquatches). This really stretches the limits of 1500 lbs payload that I can get in most vehicles that match one of my other wants, which is...

Mid Sized: I want to be able to see little tracks off the side of the road and not be limited to saying "I wonder what's down there?" because my truck won't fit -- I want to just turn the wheel and check it out. We do this all the time on trips and have had a blast taking our Canyon down trails usually tackled by ATVs and Side-by-Sides. But given most of my travel will be highways between these little tracks, I also want...

Safe: There's no question that modern vehicles are safer than older ones. Airbags, crumple zones, etc. are all part of this equation. Modernity comes with other "nice to haves" -- heated seats and CarPlay make the driving experience much better, but "modern" usually gets a bit carried away and that brings me to...

Reliability: The only vehicle that, right now available at dealerships, that checks all my boxes is the Defender. I think the Defender is actually a great rig and it's on my list to consider, but I think it's too complicated and too "modern", which isn't a deal breaker but it's another compromise akin to "too big" or "not enough payload". It is not the kind of vehicle you can reasonably fix trailside. It's not even the kind of vehicle you can reasonably fix at a Land Rover dealership in some cases based on the TFL experience ;)

That's why I'm sticking with a mid-sized truck right now -- it's the smallest amount of compromise in a rig that checks my boxes. Of course, all vehicles are a compromise, but none of the North American ones so far really offer me the compromise I'm wanting to make -- I am happy to compromise on power and comfort. I can see the world on a KLR650. I don't need to see it quickly or comfortably, and on a KLR I know I won't be either of those things. But the KLR doesn't come with Car Seat anchors, and when I discuss fabricating some with my wife she thinks it might be perceived by the local police as "irresponsible parenting" and she's probably right about that. Plus the two German Shepherds aren't trained to hang on nor do they like wearing the helmets, and the whole thing just would be a bit cramped with all of us in the saddle.

So what 4x4 can I buy in North America that does all of the above? If I had to choose between a 70-series and a domestic full size at a dealership, I wouldn't even test drive the full size. But even then, the Toyota would be a compromise on safety given the age of the design, even if it would check all of my other boxes. Still, that might be a better compromise for me than compromising on my other criteria.

But it didn't and doesn't need to be this way - Toyota took the LC in the direction of "Luxury" in the last 40 years, probably because of the market that NickW is talking about; the market is not big enough to sell a ton of Utilitarian LCs. But I want a car that checks all my boxes, and I'm sad about "what could have been" with the Land Cruiser. This is why I'm keen on the Grenadier -- I think that if instead of going Luxury Bloat, the Land Cruisers stayed 70-series utilitarian for the last 40 years but updated and modernized it, I imagine it would land somewhere in the neighborhood of what the Grenadier is trying to be.

I'm hopeful it pans out. Time will tell.
 

toylandcruiser

Expedition Leader
So beautiful!! I think the caveat here domestically though is if the US government *allowed* us to import a brand new 76 like you have there....Toyota dealerships wouldn't be able to work on them so you'd a) be n your own or b) you'd have to use a specialty cruiser shop if you had any issues.

Would you get the 1HZ?

They sell these with the same 4.0 used in the 4Runner. Why wouldn’t they be able to work on it?
 
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