Why does "size matter" in N.America???

[keezer37]

quite a bit of the fuel we use in our vehicles is processed outside of our country where there are more refineries because they aren't allowed to build the necessary refineries here to process the fuel we use.

Do you have a reference to support this statement? I recently read that the U.S. is an exporter of gasoline. Has been '08. Not to say the statement is false, they may both be true for some reason unknown to me.

Ref: Gasoline: The new big U.S. export

Whoever said "if people in the ROW could drive domestic full-sized trucks they would".... you have clearly NEVER been to the ROW that I'm talking about. Domestic FS trucks would never work the way they do in America. It has alot to do with the infrastructure of the areas not ever being designed for vehicles that large...

Very true of the Philippines. I drove a '72 Chevelle when I was stationed there. Couldn't even get it through the gate at the end of my driveway. And if the write-ups over at The Garage Journal from folks in England, Ireland are any indication, it is true in their world also.

 

[SSF556]

Bingo! When you are able to control supply, you remove the consumer's ability to influence the "supply and demand" aspect of business. Unfortunately for us oil isn't like food, they don't have to sell it to us tomorrow or it will spoil. The oil industry sickens me and if there was any other work to be done I would not be in it. The obscene amount of profit is staggering. Oh and I am a geologist who works on site at oil rigs during the drilling process to help them make sure they stay in the most profitable zone of production.

This post is amazing to me...

 

[bftank]

keezer - here you go: http://www.gravmag.com/imports.shtml

your article was interesting as well, these two references seem to draw completely opposite pictures. i do agree with where your article states that the need for fuel has gone down due to lower consumption, i don't think however it is due to more fuel efficient cars. from what i have seen on the market fuel efficiency has dropped in the fullsize truck category, until late, and hybrids efficiency is a bit skewed from reality.

diesel power mag ran an article a few years back about the governor of montana wanting to allow a plant to be built that would turn coal into diesel. thought that was a good idea, turns out the epa and politicians didn't so it flopped.



Originally Posted by 4Rescue
Whoever said "if people in the ROW could drive domestic full-sized trucks they would".... you have clearly NEVER been to the ROW that I'm talking about. Domestic FS trucks would never work the way they do in America. It has alot to do with the infrastructure of the areas not ever being designed for vehicles that large...

doesn't this mean that due to infrastructure they could not drive a fullsize even if offered? i think what the original poster of that comment is saying as well as the OZ miner, is that if the infrastructure supported a fullsize and they were offered, people would drive them.

Originally Posted by bftank
...
if this thread was about lifted f650 on 44" super swamper with hydraulic dancing tiltbeds and 12" stacks i could agree, but it's not. its about large pickups being wasteful. just seems to be a silly argument especially to be posted in the general vehicle mods forum.
Since I MADE THE THREAD... I'll tell you it IS somewhat about those kinds of trucks being that, as I said, conservatively and at a guess 85% of full sizes on the road serve NO purpose other then some sort of psycholocical comfort to the driver. As I said, I think that FS trucks DO have their place it just seems odd how the ROW does JUST FINE in a smaller vehicle AND are less wastefull of finite resources. The truck mentioned above is just another example of Full-size trucks being as much about image as they are intended use.



ok then i SOMEWHAT, agree with you, and no i am not insecure about what i own or why i own, sheesh. i think the idea that a lot of people in this thread are irritated about is your idea that 80-90% of the f250s-and f350s in the USA are purchased without a logical reason, without having seen all of the USA, just like most of us have not seen the ROW. here in colorado trucks outnumber cars, because 4x4 is needed. safety from wild life is needed. safety from people that don't know how to drive on snowy passes is needed. etc. etc. you have heard it all before. condemning blanket statements tend to stir hornets nests. if you really want to know just ask, don't make assumptions.

now that having been said let me tell you why most Americans buy big 4x4 trucks, not including the ones with dancing hydraulic beds and 24" chrome rims at the mall. it is a "psychological comfort to the driver". big trucks to Americans represent freedom and independence, not penis size. how? you may ask. well owning a truck for me means that i am independant of having to ask or hire anyone to do work for me, because the vehicle i have that serves my purposes 80% of the time isn't up to the task. it means i have the freedom to not help the jack wagon in the ditch with an i support communism sticker on the trunk. not only that, to quote the great Joe Diffy, "there's something women like about a pickup man." ok, so it's a little about the size of my penis. (disclaimer the last part was totally meant to be tongue in cheek, relax!)


klahanie -
Posted by bftank
i agree there are alot of people that could do a better job of managing their lives, but i don't think that is just an American problem.
Leading to the question: who is qualified to help them?

answer - that is a tough question, to answer. this is my third try at it. the logic i came up with is this, and very generalized, blanket statement, nonspecific
1. people that make bad decisions need to be held accountable for their actions.
unfortunately the problem with this is that...
2. the people need to elect officials that encourage accountability
which leads to....
3. nothing will change until the people that want to be held accountable for their actions outnumber, or silence the people that don't.
which can have a very ominous intrepretation.

 

[Gooseberry]

You know my E350 superduty with a 7.3 on average gets 15 to 16 MPG and my wifes double cab 2wd Tacoma stock get 16 to 17 ? and the van is twice the weight and 3 times the vehical so Hmm

 

[bob91yj]

Wretched excess all the way around...maybe. Here's my junk, I have a Jeep and tools/supplies in the trailer...it's not a pound over 9995...says so right on the tongue! Not many mini trucks that are going to meet my needs. Does the truck really need the lift, probably not, the extra tire sure is nice off the pavement though.

There was a time when we drove my '91 YJ (with no full top) pulling a 10' Coleman pop up where ever we were going. I've gotten older, fatter and crankier, graduated to bigger stuff that meets my current needs. We've also got an '09 Kia Spectra and a '91 Miata that we use as commuter cars.

 

[Stumpalump]

I love America because it gives me the freedom to be as weird as I want. Big trucks as daily drivers are weird and if I had small man parts then I would certainly have one as well. Power Wagons being the exception of course.

 

[goodtimes]

I love America because it gives me the freedom to be as weird as I want.

:xxrotflma

Thanks for the morning chuckle.



:bowdown:

 

[thebrassnuckles]

I almost bought a mini truck... in fact, I really didn't want a full size.... but I have 2 kids in car seats, and will more than likely have a third before I can eliminate the oldest kids car seat.

there was no way that I could fit 3 car seats in a mini truck. I also have 2 dogs that I will be taking along, once everyone is old enough for trips to the back country. I need space. mini trucks just cant provide the space.

almost everyday I wish i'd have gone bigger than my 1/2 ton truck, but hey, it was pretty....

if i'd have gone bigger It would have been a 3/4 ton dodge mega cab with a cummins motor....

why? because it has so much space, and i'll never be able to over work it.



I too HATE the big gay lifted trucks. if the new power wagon came with a diesel motor i'd be driving one of them. that is the perfect truck for me. just the right about of height and tire size.

 

[Hilldweller]

Big trucks as daily drivers are weird and if I had small man parts then I would certainly have one as well. Power Wagons being the exception of course.

Good save; thanks...

 

[Saiyan66]

This post is amazing to me...

Let me clarify a bit and it might not be so strange. The oil industry sickens me for several reasons. One is the lack of respect for anyone or anything. Everything is "disposable" to them. Second is their blatant environmental contamination habits which seem to be something that the EPA or someone should look into. Yes I do work in the oil industry, I have a geology degree and there isn't much else out there in that field right now that will support my family. Lastly the gross amount of profit these companies make comes from you and me being bent over at the gas pump, and to add insult to injury I don't see much of that revenue on my paycheck.

 

[SSF556]

Let me clarify a bit and it might not be so strange. The oil industry sickens me for several reasons. One is the lack of respect for anyone or anything. Everything is "disposable" to them. Second is their blatant environmental contamination habits which seem to be something that the EPA or someone should look into. Yes I do work in the oil industry, I have a geology degree and there isn't much else out there in that field right now that will support my family. Lastly the gross amount of profit these companies make comes from you and me being bent over at the gas pump, and to add insult to injury I don't see much of that revenue on my paycheck.

Profit is not bad word......seems to me you need to move along and find something that is not profit driven. I look around my house today and see oil based products everywhere. Oil is life. Oil has provided me a lot of comforts that no other product can provide.
There are many jobs in America that will support your family....and they are available in states that do not tax you to death like CA.

You have your opinions and I have my opinions.

In regards to the EPA...they have done eveything in their power to eliminate diesel engines in America.....diesel engines feed my family. Good to hear that the EPA is not doing that to everyone.

 

[keezer37]

keezer - here you go: http://www.gravmag.com/imports.shtmlyour article was interesting as well, these two references seem to draw completely opposite pictures. i do agree with where your article states that the need for fuel has gone down due to lower consumption, i don't think however it is due to more fuel efficient cars. from what i have seen on the market fuel efficiency has dropped in the fullsize truck category, until late, and hybrids efficiency is a bit skewed from reality.

I don't know where these folks at Gibson Consulting are getting there info but as luck would have it, our bloated government has an agency for that, the U.S. Energy Information Administration. Looking at Finished Gasoline, it looks like we are carrying a net export of 162k barrels a day. I guess this is so new, it doesn't have a category so they call it a Net Import of -162k per day.


But a big x2 to Saiyan66's "bent over at the gas pump" comment as the info on Finished Motor Gasoline from the EIA's website does not support the supply & demand model. Nor do current economic conditions if you look at gasoline consumed. How does it work? As demand goes up and supply goes down, price goes up. If supply goes up and demand goes down, price goes down. Just not as much. Now then, if supply and demand can be interpreted as lobbyists and politicians, then yeah, the model works perfectly. And I'll bet not a one of them drives a Prius! :ylsmoke:

 

[bftank]

thanks for the source keezer. i am glad we are exporting gas, it's about time. i completely agree with the supply and demand model being skewed, i just wanted people to know there were other factors keeping us from low fuel prices. it looks like the gravmag ref was sourced from older information from the EIA, from 1997-2009.

 

[mbtytc07]

This is an interesting thread that seems to be the basis of weekly conversations between myself and friends who constantly travel in Central/South America and Europe. I increasingly find it difficult to find the automotive product I want to drive - although looking globally it always seems to be offered somewhere else. And we all bemoan the lack of reasonably sized vehicles and the lack of availability of diesels in the US market i.e., "World" Ford Ranger that won't be offered because it will steal market share from F-150, Toyota diesels like are seen south of our borders, etc..

Mahindra seemed like a an interesting addition (especially seeing the trucks while they were being tested in CO) but alass, even my most frugal of friends think they look cheap and plasticy. But if Mahindra ever gets their truck-based product consistently to our shores it will be interesting to see how the trucks "capacity" is handled the US consumer.

Ultimately, this discussion will continue as it is until we all break the collective denial that the "Frontier is closed" and we truly believe we live in a finite land.

 

[Buliwyf]

Let me clarify a bit and it might not be so strange. The oil industry sickens me for several reasons. One is the lack of respect for anyone or anything. Everything is "disposable" to them. Second is their blatant environmental contamination habits which seem to be something that the EPA or someone should look into. Yes I do work in the oil industry, I have a geology degree and there isn't much else out there in that field right now that will support my family. Lastly the gross amount of profit these companies make comes from you and me being bent over at the gas pump, and to add insult to injury I don't see much of that revenue on my paycheck.

Got pics? The US is usually one of the cleanest nations in the world. What exactly are these evil oil companies doing?

The EPA needs to be dismantled for what they've done to our economy. Sure we need regulation, but the EPA has gone too far with the current enviromental regulations. Diesel trucks have been clean for a while. We need a new body to replace the EPA that has a better handle on science, not fuzzy good hippy speak, and lobbyists.

Chasing away business to countries like China, that have very little enviromental laws is not good business, and is terrible for the enviroment. It's not cheap labor that is causing everyone to outsorce to other countries. We have robots for cheap labor in Ohio. It's the fact that it is becoming very, very hard to build a plant and handle dangerous materials.

Tier 5 is far too strict. A Tier 5 engine is not really any cleaner than Tier 4, but cost 40-60% more to produce. They are also far less reliable. Those are the EPA's rediculous laws.

When you buy a gallon of fuel, the taxes in that fuel make up a way more of the cost of that fuel, than the fuel companies profit margin. If you think you can produce fuel cheaper........then why don't you?