Why Mitsubishi for a year in Mexico? Other options?

[grox]

We’re doing a year in Mexico. Sayulita will be our base but many road trips planned from there. Long stretches of highway- mixed with bumpy dirt and cobblestone roads.

I’ve been reading and watching Craigslist and Expedition Portal for months. Seems like Mitsubishi are a great value when compared the Toyota alternatives.

This is what I’m looking for.

• Under $10,000 (Around $5,000 would be awesome!)

• Reliably is number 1. Don’t want to break down on the road in Mexico

• Parts available in Mexico (sadly rules out Subaru)

• Rugged.

• Big enough to carry my wife and I along with our 4-year-old son and gear

• (Bonus) Good fuel economy

Vehicles I’m considering. Montero, 4Runner, Land Cruiser, VW TDI, Pathfinder. Open to other suggestions as well.

 

[Eric M]

Why Mitsubishi?

Montero fits all of those, but you're going to have to define 'good fuel economy'. Highway driving will yield high teens, maybe 20mpg with a well maintained vehicle. I think the worst part about the Montero is availability. There's just not that many well maintained ones for sale. Since you're going to have 3 passengers, you're going to want the split 2nd row bench. I don't know which ones exactly have it, but my NL (1998-2000) does. That will allow you extended cargo area while still providing a seat for your son. Like this.

I think with about 6 bolts it can even be completely removed.

 

[Doorplease]

The Montero handles Mexico very well, although a first generation probably isn't a good idea due fuel economy vs price of Mexican fuel ($4+/gal). Parts probably aren't going to be super available (if you want that get a Nissan suru or an old Chevy), but no worse than a 4Runner, or a xterra. The Montero is super reliable and tough as nails to handle Mexico's poor roads. It runs on both grades of fuel well enough with good mileage (I recommend "verde" throughout your travels and ad additives, reason being is that if your in more remote places the higher grade fuel probably isn't used as often, thus had the tendency to be old. If your doing a lot of remote driving fill up often, don't wanna get stuck with a full tank of crap gas) and its thin diameter is actually a great help when in bigger cities. Buy a cheap Montero get as many spare parts as your think that should be changed (shocks, control arms, brushing, ect.) and have them changes there for pennies on the dollar, Mexico is full of great mechanics who work for free compared to prices here.

Cheers! :sombrero::costumed-smiley-007:sombrero:

Oh don't forget to pick up a few fuel filters for any car before you go you will need them!

 

[kbahus]

Given reliability is your number one concern I would stick with Toyota, particularly the Land Cruiser chassis above all else. All of my Land Cruisers have been nothing short of the most reliable and robust vehicles I have ever owned. My Montero simply does not compare in this regard and for a trip such as yours I wouldn't risk it.

 

[Doorplease]

I wouldn't put the 4Runner above a Montero on reliability, and while the land cruiser is an amazing platform I don't thing it would be a good choice for Mexico. They are heavy, expensive, big (depending on which generation you choose), but above all others they are stand out. A nastalgic 78' land cruiser would be amazing if it were just you and your wife in an old cruiser exploring the various alcoves of Mexico without a care, or even a new one for that matter. It's just (IMHO) land cruiser says "money" and that's not the safest thing in Mexico at the moment. Sure there are tons of other fancy cars in Mexico, but why risk someone wanting the LC with your little boy with you.?

 

[Doorplease]

Again IMHO... All due respect Kbahus:ylsmoke:

 

[grox]

Thanks guys. I think I've narrowed it down to the Montero, Land Cruiser or 4Runner, and Xterra. Going to drive a few this week and see how they feel. I have to admit, I've always wanted a LC but the fuel economy has kept me away.

 

[kbahus]

This is a great discussion and valid points are brought up, I am almost playing devil's advocate here. I should have stated I would recommend a 100 series Land Cruiser, an 80 would probably suffice but the V8 is a big plus in the 100 as well as a little more comfort. It is kind of funny, my train of thought was that I would want an LC for the fear of breaking down and stranding the family in a remote or not safe region. I did not consider the safety of flying under the radar and would imagine that would be an important concern as well. It sounds like you have some experience traveling in Mexico, which I do not, but what would you rate the highest safety concern?

Another issue that the OP brought up is parts availability. What is the parts availability like for Mitsubishi vs. Toyota in Mexico? I have a difficult time finding replacement parts for my Gen3 here in the states despite having access to national parts suppliers like World Pac. The local Mitsu dealer also has had issues getting parts for my vehicle and some have been discontinued; it is a low build number and not very popular vehicle it seems. On the other hand the OP has the nation's most experienced Land Cruiser builder (Slee) in his back yard. I know sourcing Toyota parts in the states is a snap and the aftermarket support is huge as well.

As far as Nissan and the 4runner, I can't comment much and I suppose with all of these vehicles it comes down to picking the best generation for a particular model. With a fully loaded suv of any type the gas mileage is not going to be good either, especially if you run a larger tire and pack it to the roof. My gen3 Montero will avg 16-17 highway with 32's, my 80 series with 33's was at 13-14mpg, and I would expect a V8 100 series to be 14-17. Folks do report the earlier generation Monteros getting around 20mpg, but that might be best case scenario?

Keep the discussion going, no offense taken at any time!

 

[speedtre]

I don't know your timeline but if I was you I'd look for a clean Gen 2.5 Montero (1997-1999) with the winter package (heated seats and most importantly the rear-locker). The 2000 is also a Gen 2.5, but it did not have the rear-locker as an option.

The Montero (not the Montero Sport) is more akin to a Land Cruiser than a 4Runner of similar vintage (no, I'm not saying it's as good as a LandCruiser, but it is certainly closer to a Land Cruiser than the values would suggest). Crawl underneath a Gen 2.5 and look at it's frame/running gear and compare it to a similar year 4Runner. The Montero is MUCH beefier. It was designed to run around 3rd world countries, despite the fact it was sold in the states with electric everything, a big sunroof and leather seats as a soccer mom SUV.

It has a bit more room than the 4runner, is just as reliable, and a similar age/condition Montero will cost 1/2 (or less) what the 4runner will. As for the Land Cruiser, it will cost probably 25-30% what that would set you back. For the cost of the 4Runner, you can have a Montero and spend several thousand dollars on prepping it for the trip. I was looking for a 3rd gen 4runner when I "discovered" the Montero and the value they provided and that is why I ended up with a 1999 Montero with the winter package.

Stock Monteros had 29.5 inch tires (265/70/15s), but they will take 33/10.5/15s tires without any suspension modifications (other than possibly tightening the torsion bars up front). I run 31/10.5/15s to give a small lift, but not kill MPG. Montero's do not sip gas, but they are closer to 4runners than Land Cruisers in that respect. I get 15-16 around town and 19-20 hway. I've have had several of Toyota trucks with 3.4s, and it's a fine engine, but I prefer the 3.5 in the Montero for power delivery. The transmission in the Montero is butter smooth and built like a tank. My Montero has 198K miles on it and I would not hesitate to take it across the country tomorrow. The compass and outside temp reading is nice to have as well. Not that you will need it for your trip, but most of them are 7 seaters (the two rear most seats require taking some bolts out, but I can do it in about 10-15 minutes).

A couple of things to be aware of with the Montero if you go that route.

It is an interference engine (unlike the Toyota), so it's important to keep up with timing belt changes. If I were in your shoes, I'd have a new timing belt (and ancillaries) put on (unless you have documentation that it's been done recently and then I'd still have it inspected) and, also make sure it has the latest crank shaft pulley bolt design AND that it's torqued to the correct specification...that is very important.

If it smokes/burns oil, it's most likely the valve-guide seals and not a big deal. If it "ticks" loudly, it's either air or some debris blocking one of the hydraulic valve lash adjusters and again not a big deal. There is a revving procedure that will sometimes fix this, but often it requires hand bleeding/cleaning of the VLA and that of course requires taking the heads off. My Montero has "ticked" for the last 30k miles and I have no immediate plans to fix it, but probably will one day.

The oil pressure gauge is unreliable. Mine has read about 30% of what it should since the day I bought it.

Really, I don't think you can go wrong with a 4runner, Land Cruiser or Montero for your intended purpose....they are all great vehicles and would serve you well, I just think when it comes to value, the Gen 2.5 Montero is the winner.

Good luck with your search for the right vehicle and have a great trip!

 

[Toasty]

As a Montero guy i agree with kbahus but not in the conventional sense, I think some the J80s (they're slipping off) and J100 series LCs remain the more reliable rig not because they're a better built rig but because they have held their value better. I say stock for stock in brand new condition they are equal in terms of strength and reliability BUT LC's are typically better cared for throughout their life because of the people who own them and how much they have invested.

Let's skip to 2nd and 3rd owners of each LC and Montero, so 2nd owner lets say you paid 25k for a used J100 maybe 5 years old you are likely going to keep up on maintenance and treat it right. 2nd owner of a Montero probably bought it for 10k when it was 5 years old this person typically gets oil changes at wall mart (skidplates are now gone) owner does no other maintenance and now it's time for a 120k service (AKA time to sell this thing or run it into the ground, bring it back then sell to recoup the loss).

3rd owner of the LC saved up 10-15k and bought it complete with service records, he continues maintenance as he builds his expo rig meticulously ordering ARB everything and making sure not to skip a service in favor of modifications. 3rd owner of the Montero bought it for $3500 from a small car lot where it either is a time bomb if maintenance is not performed OR has been done by said car lot the "cheap" way giving you maybe 10-20k miles of worry free service to go. This is where it gets real interesting for the Montero it will either be brought back into shape by an enthusiast and become a reliable rig once again OR someone gets it for free or close to free where it gets only abuse in favor of maintenance until death. The Mitsubishi Montero is the race horse of the automotive world, these most decorated race trucks in stock form will sit unnoticed in the wrecking yard until the day they are crushed.


Also as a Mitsu/Toyota owner i will say again in terms of reliability/durability a well maintained Gen 2 Montero is pretty equal to a 100 series. They both have their pros and cons but i'd call it a wash in the end and personal preference should dictate your purchase. There are truly very few "world" platforms and for the sake of this discussion we'll stick to Japanese and ones readily available (non nostalgic) still being supported. Your budget i'm guessing will rule out the following Landcruisers available stateside; J120 (<<MIGHT be able to snag a deal on one), J160 and J200 while these are probably some of the best trucks sold within the past 10 years and the J160 and J200 are still available new they're just a rich mans game. The others are coming into the affordable price range with the Montero being the least expensive, the J100 is probably the best option as it has held its value better so previous owners will have taken better care for it plus they are available newer where the last definitive Montero ended in '00 (sorry Gen 3 guys that's just how it is).
J100 Vs Montero I found two on Auto trader unfortunately i couldn't find a '99 J100 with a rear locker or a '99 Montero with a rear locker in equal condition and miles (they both do exist and prices could potentially go up)

'00 J100 cost to buy in good condition with 172k miles is $8850
'00 V45 Montero cost to buy in good condition with 176k miles is $3990

Pros
J100; V8, More cargo room available newer
V45 Montero; better MPGs, narrower body, inexpensive

Cons
J100; weaker IFS, less MPGs, more expensive and more expensive to build (mechanics can fix these if you have the $$$)
Montero; typically run down, less power, less supported, and can get expensive if you don't do your homework (better truck for the skilled DIYer)

Equals
J100 = Montero; Both IFS, both available with a rear locker and AWD, both have massive rear axles and both are "world" vehicles. These are the only trucks that you can over load with gear (which we overlanders are well known for) then go run the Rubicon like it doesn't even care it's on bumpstops. You just can't do that with the lighter duty chassis 4x4s (4Runner, X-terra, Montero Sport) <these are great trucks, just not in the same tier sorry dudes.


I'd get more into 80 series but it's an in betweener these days; getting run down, beat up finally but still worth gold because of it's name plate. Very good trucks and they can be found for reasonable prices in good shape but more often than not you'll find yourself looking at an 1992 80 series with a 3F-E that has gone 250k miles and a handfull of headgaskets, no lockers, crap interior and a $8,000 price tag. This is the unfortunate truth, the front solid axle is great but not that great and for that matter buy a IFS rig in WAYYY better shape for 3k (Montero, Gen 1 Pathfinder, Gen 2 4 Runner) and use the rest to PAY A SHOP to SAS that hog or if you're talented DIY that task and use your THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS savings to do maintenance or buy the missus something nice.

 

[Dr Gonzo]

Just a quick reply, I browsed and didn't see this mentioned:

Montero Limited (from NP on forward) is still being sold in Mexico. A lot of parts are interchangeable across the third gen. Dealers stock or supply most parts, and there are a few on junkyards. There are 2003-2006, there was no 2007 and from 2008 they have the MIVECS version of the 3.8 (hopefully slightly better MPG... maybe). 2003-2006 are very discreet and fly under the radar, always a bonus IMO. 2010 on are flashy, w lots of chrome. There were never any pre 2003 Monteros officially imported into Mexico and dealer service and parts availability reflects this.

Not sure when was the changeover for the Montero Sport, and while previous gen (pre 2008?) never came in 4WD in Mexico, the 2WD are plentiful and so cheap you could probably get a spare for parts. "New gen" is also being sold (2WD and 4WD), but of course was not sold in the US.

Mine (2003) has been great. Mexico kilometers are *hard* on cars. Mine is at about 120,000km (75k mi or so) and had never had a single issue, despite towing a popup, lots of dirt roads and having driven through most of Mexico, including most of the 2014 Baja 1000 route last october-november.

Of course, just last week the brake accummulator started making noises, but that's it... no CEL's, nothing.

Mileage is bad and can get terrible in Mexico conditions (lots of mountains, lots of altitude) but I always run cheap gas ("verde") and have no knock issues. I get about 16mpg or worse (w no rack and OME 2" lift), some people may get as high as 19mpg. I've gotten near 10mpg with loaded rack and climbing from sea level to Mexico city, or while towing, also climbing... I seem to always be climbing LOL.

**Edit**: Land Cruisers are not plentiful, are very expensive and you'll have to go the dealer for parts. They were only sold in Mexico starting in 2003 and have always been rare and expensive. Parts availability, especially when unique to LC (and not common with 4Runner, Tundra, et al) also reflects this scarcity.

 

[kbahus]

Toasty, you hit the nail on the head and Dr. Gonzo you bring some great real world Mexico travel information to the plate.

 

[grox]

Thanks for the great info. So far, I've been able to drive a couple of Xterra's and a 100 series Land Cruiser. Haven't been able to track down a Montero yet to test drive. The Xterra has a fun and sporty feel to it which I like. Also very utilitarian. The LC ride quality blew me away. So smooth and plush. Fuel economy in each is not great, and none of the vehicles I drove were quiet right for me. All things considered, I think the Xterra is leading the way so far. Its the right size, and half the cost of a LC, but most importantly, plenty of X's in Mexico so easy to find parts.

Still searching for a Montero to check out.

 

[PirateMcGee]

How about a van?

 

[grox]

I've had two AWD Astro vans. Loved them both. But, seems like they're generally beat up and getting harder to find in decent condition. Might make the list if I found the right van.