Why not use frozen water bottles for cooler for 2-3 day trips?

[Retired Tanker]

This topic comes up from time to time. The OP's question is "Why not..." Well, it depends.

Without getting into a bunch of thermodynamics and physics like radiation, convection, and conduction, just remember a few principals.

Heat is transmitted. Cold is not. Water conducts heat 50 times more efficiently than air. The ability to conduct heat depends on surface area.

If you're trying to MAKE something cold (i.e., conduct heat OUT of the object/substance), then water is your friend. A beer in icy water will get colder faster than in just ice alone.

If you're trying to KEEP something cold (i.e., PREVENT the conduct of heat out of the object/substance) then AIR (or better, vacuum) is your friend. The ice in the cooler will keep the air cold, which will help prevent the air from conducting heat. Fortunately, cold air is heavier, so you can open the top of the cooler without losing too much heat.

As to the frozen bottles, energy is energy. A larger number of smaller bottles will be more efficient at keeping the air cold. But if you pack the cooler tightly with objects that are already as cold as possible, then the difference between large and small bottles should be a wash. Still on the fence about the whole orange juice thing, though. Going to have to give that some thought...

Remember, too, that heat is trying to migrate IN from the OUTSIDE. Keep the cooler out of the sun to prevent solar "loading."

Lesson complete. You'll be given a practical test during your next outing...

 

[Honu]

had a fridge for a long time but coolers work in some situations so still using them

I know some guides put water in the bottom and freeze the whole thing

we freeze our juice bottles and food and anything else but did that with our fridge also to cut down batter run time

trying the cooler thing a bit to simplify and see how it goes I love fridge but coolers have pros to there is no better IMHO just depends

ditto the notice of the top things not being as cold and used to our super cold of the fridge

in the past one thing we did with coolers is put a bottom of a tupperware kinda thing to keep ice melt out of the stuff that needs to be kept dry

I liked having two fridges one for freezer one for fridge I kinda want a 35l fridge to make into a freezer and rotate out freezer ice into the cooler and keep a few things

 

[MzPriss]

I freeze everything that can be frozen before loading the ice chest. Also, one small milk jug with salted down water. I do top everything off with ice, but the ice from our ice maker, not store bought. It lasts longer, but still gives some melt, which as stated above does help.

 

[workingonit71]

pre-frozen drinks in bottles as my best cooling solution (using present equipment)

I haven't had any problems finding blocks of ice for my cooler. Perhaps some small retailers or convenience stores will only carry cubed ice, but every local ice house I have visited has carried block ice and so has every supermarket I have patronized on my journeys.

[I typically pre-chill my cooler with a block of ice the night before a trip, then in the morning before I leave I drain off any melt water and fill with chilled and frozen food, also frozen water bottles, then stop off at my local ice house on the way to the Interstate and buy a bag of cubed ice to fill any voids in my main cooler and fill up my small drink cooler which resides behind the center console. The block ice in the main cooler typically lasts 3-4 days, although I do have to replenish the cubed ice in the drink cooler because it isn't well insulated in comparison to the main cooler - an Ozark Trail "high performance" rotomolded cooler.]

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PS - People tell me that I now qualify as being "old." I've been freezing plastic containers for decades, as have tens of thousands of others, and the practice hasn't injured or killed me or anyone I know or have heard about. Worrying about the release of dioxins from freezing plastic food containers for use in camp coolers strikes me as being overly alarmist and more than a bit ridiculous.

• I am officially old, and have become very tired of the melted ice and warm food and drinks that follow. But, using frozen bottles of water/drinks in a cooler to stretch the cooling time is new to me. I'd always just grabbed a cooler from the shed, tossed in some food, and bought my water/drinks/ice on the way to my destination, whether hunting-fishing-drag racing; Iwas never gone for over 36 hours, and didn't actually camp, as much as just travelled, did the featured activities for the duration, and drove home. It had been thirty+ years since I spent extended time away from refrigeration, but now,
• On my last trip, in cooler weather, I used 64 lbs of ice (8x8 lb bags), initially distributed this way: my 50 qt. Coleman Extreme had 24 lbs over 12-14? 1-liter bottles of frozen iced-tea, the smaller Igloo Maxcold had 12 lbs over 3 frozen qts. and 8 20 oz. unfrozen water bottles, and the 48 qt. Cube had 16 lbs over 10? frozen iced-tea bottles and two 2.5-lb packs of Earl Campbell's link sausage (my favorite) + 2 (frozen) ice packs on the bottom. All this was loaded up into truck & trailer about 11 pm, the night before.
• In the morning, prior to leaving, I shook down the coolers to settle the ice level, and added the remaining 12 lbs of ice (stored in the freezer, overnight) on top of all three. Then I left for camp (@10 am).
• After one semi-warm and two cool days later, with three cool nights between, I inspected the remnant of my ice left in the three coolers, before breaking camp. The Maxcold (in my truck floor) had very little ice, 90% water, but the water bottles were very cold,so I left it as it was. The Extreme, sitting in my truck bed, had 20% ice left, and three iced tea bottles left in it were half-frozen. The Cube fared worse, with the ice-packs now liquid, and no free ice in the cooler, and the four previously frozen iced-tea bottles left were liquid, also. The remaining sausage package was moved to the Extreme, still with ice. The water was cold, though. Everything was much colder than on my usual trip, due to the cool ambient temperatures that weekend (no A/C required, hooded sweatshirt at night). I will now always freeze my prepared drinks, in advance, as they keep better than using ice alone.
• But, I wasn't happy with the performance of the Cube, at all, so I converted it into a Cube in a Cube (with a smaller version of the Cube, pink rigid foam, Great Stuff insulation, EPDM seals, and foil tape sealing the extra foam in), as a way to keep the meat packages colder, longer. There's no way my wife will let me get a $350-500 rotomolded cooler, or an ARB, Engel, or NL fridge (at an even higher price level) for my trailer, since I have four more old-style Coleman coolers, barely used, in a shed. And, I only need the coolers for 2-3-4 days, only a few times a year. So,using frozen drinks in bottles is the way I foresee my cooling future, but I'm trying to sneak in a small freezer (next to my desk at home -I'm retired-), so I can always have the frozen bottles ready to-go, at short notice, without having to rob "her" freezer space.

 

[Roaddude]

Is this the study? http://www.jhsph.edu/news/stories/2004/halden-dioxins-two.html

another_mike, great article debunking the plastics/dioxin myth, along with other interesting info. Thanks.

I've used frozen water bottles for ages and have a mess in my fridge right now. I often freeze new unopened Poland Spring or other store-bought water, use them to keep stuff cold in coolers, then often re-freeze them (if I haven't drunk them yet) for next time. Sometimes do the re-freezing in a hotel fridge/freezer if staying over for my monthly shower (heh). Some hotels will let you put your water bottles in their kitchen freezer overnight if they don't have fridge/freezers in their rooms. I like getting a couple 8pks of the smaller water bottles and freezing them, as they pack in around stuff easier and once thawed are often just enough for a quick drink while driving down the road. One thing I've learned over the years with plastic water bottles is not to refill for freezing then drinking out of too many times, as the bottle opening will harbor bacteria and you will start to notice.

I can't remember the last time I bought a bag of ice for my travel cooler, though do remember years ago you could stop into just about any McD's and they would refill a clean cooler with ice at no charge. No idea if they still do that or not.

A better way is to buy fresh orange juice in plastic or carton 1/2 gallon jugs, open them up, drink a little bit and then freeze the oj jugs solid...

Place the oj jugs (with caps on) in the bottom of the cooler and cover them with ice.

Orange juice has a melting point that is colder that water's melting point, so first the ice melts, then as the oj melts, it re-freezes the ice... and the cooler goes through this melting refreezing process for a while... you will be amazed how long this will last... just make sure your food stuffs don't freeze into the water that gets refrozen...

Davidl13, that's a great tip!

 

[Roaddude]

Oh! Meant to say, too, that if you know anyone who gets Blue Apron or other meals ordered online, they often come in some pretty nice coolers lined with flexible freezer packs. I recently got a ton of the freezer packs for free this way, along with half-a-dozen pizza-box sized aluminum bubble-wrap envelopes and several very thick, dense, styrofoam coolers. These freezer packs are great for lining the walls of your cooler and laying across the top of your contents.

 

[millerfish]

In addition to freezing all possible food and drink, I freeze water in 8x12x4 trays and use that as block ice. I think that works better than freezing juice bottles because once the water in the bottle started to melt the liquid water insulates the frozen ice making it less effective...