Winch Extension question

[jrose609]

I just bought a 100' winch rope from Alex at Masterpull. I have a brand new m8000 Warn winch with brand new steel braided line.

I was thinking about cutting the steel winch line in two pieces and making two separate winch extensions.

I went to the 4x4 store today to buy parts to make the extensions, and the guy chewed my ***** saying it was stupid to use a synthetic rope and then wire rope extensions. He said it was dangerous having two different types of rope. He said to use one or the other.

So, my question to all you experienced recovery people is: is it ok to make and use wire extensions with a synthetic rope?

Thoughts? Ideas?

The guy thought I should just sell the unused coil of Warn wire and buy an extension.

THanks,

Jason

 

[Stan the Man]

I with the guy at the shop.

 

[mrchips]

Either wire or rope,,,, not both>

 

[jrose609]

Ok. Thanks guys. I appreciate the input. I just had never thought about it, but sounds right.

Jason

 

[hillbillyjake]

i'll bite, why not both

 

[yyc_ranger_4x4]

Ditto...what's the difference if you have synthetic winch line with steel extensions? You've already got steel shackles, and possibly chain if needed in the mix...

Get your steel cable swaged by someone with the proper hydraulic press, and who knows how to do a flemish eye splice. Do both ends, be sure that there are thimbles, and go to town. I don't recommend using Crosby clamps on winch line, as most steel winch line does not have the strength needed when using these clamps (the clamps de-rate the strength of the steel to about 90% of what it was before). They're good to have as a field repair, just not for normal use unless you're upgrading the size of line on the winch.

I would rather have synthetic extensions as they're nicer to work with, but so long as it's strong enough, and in good shape it shouldn't matter.

 

[WF-Wagrub]

Another bite.

I'm still running the wire rope on my winch, but I have a synthetic extension. I've never needed the extension, but if I ever do, a thimble to thimble connection is going to need some sort of steel connector. As long as you use suffecient Minimum Breaking Strengths and keep everything properly maintained it seems to me that you're back at rigging securely and staying out of the 'strike' zone in case of a failure.

 

[Antichrist]

The only reason I can think not to use both is the number of times I've seen and/or read of synthetic line breaking on people while winching. Since you'll have some sort of steel connector somewhere near the middle of the run, you probably have a bit of a higher likelyhood of it flying through the air if the synthetic line breaks.
I have a synthetic extension for my wire rope equiped winches, and it gives me the creeps.

 

[Seeker]

If the primary difference is that synthetic stretches less than steel, having a steel extension in your system when using synthetic rope on your drum can't be any more dangerous than using a steel extension. As long as the MBS appropriately matches across all your gear, and it exceeds your winch rating, I can't see any reason for his comments.

 

[yyc_ranger_4x4]

If you put a 5/16" synthetic up against a 5/16" steel line, the synthetic will have almost 5000lbs + greater breaking strength (assuming standard Amsteel Blue vs a 7x19 aircraft cable). I'll take the greater breaking strength any day, not to mention the reduced mass.

Think about this....yes, you need some type of connection between your winch line and the extension. This would obviously be a shackle or something along this line. With either a steel-synthetic setup, or a steel-steel winch line-extension setup, if either one breaks, there will most likely be some snap back. I can't deny this, and it's just physics. The shackle (or other connection device) is obviously going to move somewhere very quickly.

This is where proper winching techniques come into play....use your jackets/tarps/blankets midline and they will absorb alot of the energy if the line does break. Also, be sure that you (and anyone else in the area) are aware of the greater possible distance that the line could now fly.

 

[Master-Pull]

Ditto...what's the difference if you have synthetic winch line with steel extensions? You've already got steel shackles, and possibly chain if needed in the mix...

To address the steel vs. synthetic question and why a shackle isn't a factor; a typical 5/16" steel cable found on a winch will be rated with a ~10,000 lbs Minumum Breaking Strength. A standard Amsteel Blue line is rated to 12,300 lbs. An MP Superline in the same diameter will be 21,000 lbs. A quality 3/4" shackle that you would pair with this rope or cable with has an MBS of 62,000 lbs. That's not going to be the component that breaks.

Chain can be useful in the right situation, but nearly every time I see one being used, it's 73 years old and rusted half to death. They often break (I took the grill of my 3/4 Suburban out this way, YEARS ago before I knew better) and the resulting carnage is never pretty, and usually painful to man and/or machine.

-MP

 

[hillbillyjake]

so is there any reason to NOT be able to mix synthetic/steel cable or extensions?

 

[Blue02]

Can't see why this would be and issue.

 

[ntsqd]

Setting the safety aspects aside, and I feel that this can be done for the sake of discussion because the wire and the rope really shouldn't be treated or rigged any differently (excepting chafe issues), then I cannot see a reason why you should not mix the two. No one says to never mix slings and wire. NOTE: By "slings" I mean exactly that, a low stretch web sling, and not a dynamic 'snatch' strap. As an example of a sling, witness a "tree saver."
How different from that mixture is wire and rope? I don't see a difference.

I can see reasons why all rope would be the better approach, but it would not forbid the use of a mix of the two.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Don't want to hyjack this thread, but it's somewhat related. I have been thinking about getting a synthetic winch line, and was also thinking of using my old wire rope as an extension. Thing is, I've used the wire a couple times, and it'd developed a few... kinks. I think they happened due to the wire not wrapping on the drum nicely when doing a pull. The wire pulled into a low spot or something. I've never pulled a loop or anything like that.

I've read some things that would suggest this wire is garbage now but... I also see lots of guys using wire ropes in much worse condition than mine.