Winch extension strap - which load rating?

Antichrist

Expedition Leader
Also using just one block will not double your pulling power, it will just cause you to use more line. However, if you run your line out to someone else and are winching them towards you, you can use a single block to double your power. But when you just put one block to a tree and bring it back you are not going to double your pulling power. To do that you need to put a second block on your bumper and run it back out to the tree.
Think about it. Substitute another vehicle for the tree.
There's no difference in mechanical advantage if it's the winch equipped truck that's moving and the other truck stationary vs the other truck being recovered and the winch equipped truck stationary.

Where there is no mechanical advantage is when you're using a pulley to change the direction of a pull, like around a corner.
 

Louisd75

Adventurer
Thank you all for reminding me of just how rusty I am with my physics. Here's a crude drawing that I'm going to use to illustrate an experiment that you could easily do:

Pulley.jpg


(the white erased spots where numbers that I had drawn on but erased when I realized that they complicated the explanation)

In the left example, you're hoisting yourself into the tree. There's a snatch block attached to the tree branch and you're suspended in a bos'ns chair. You want to move one foot vertically, how much line are you going to have to pull? One foot. There's no mechanical advantage there. If there's 200 lbs that you're trying to move and a one foot pull moves you one foot (1:1), you're going to need more than 200 lbs of force to make the move.

In the right example, you're in the tree hoisting someone up. The person you're hoisting is holding onto the snatch block. In this scenario, in order to hoist the person one foot vertically, you'll need to pull two feet of line. If two feet of pull moves you one foot, that's a 2:1 advantage. Now, instead of pulling with 200 lbs, you only need to pull with more than 100lbs to move the person upwards. They won't move vertically as fast, but you only need half the force.

How does this apply to trucks? Let's say you're stuck on a muddy slope. In the left picture, replace the person's arms with your winch and the rest of the person with your truck. You have no mechanical advantage. Rigging a snatch block to a tree and running it back to your vehicle will be a 1:1 pull. It won't reduce the amount of work needed to get your truck up the hill. But, there may be an advantage to doing this. Let's say that you've got 100' of line on your winch, but the tree at the top of the hill is only 50' away. You run the line to the tree but now you've still got 50' of line on your winch drum. The rated pull power of the winch is based on having one layer of line on the spool of the winch. If you've still got 50' of line on the drum, you've probably got two or more layers of line, effectively reducing the amount of force that your winch can pull with. If you run the line to snatch block on the tree and then back to the truck you're basically getting more line off of the drum and moving closer to having one layer of line, which is where your winch is most effective.

If you're stuck on the slope and want to reduce the amount of force needed to pull your truck up, you'll need two snatch blocks. You'll have to run the line from the winch to a snatch block on the tree, then back to a snatch block on the truck, then back to the tree (or another fixed point). This will give you a 2:1 advantage.

Now, let's say that you get to the top of the muddy slope. Your buddy behind you gets stuck and doesn't have a winch of his own. You get yourself turned around at the top of the hill so that you can pull him up. You could do a straight line pull and use the brute strength of the winch to drag him up, or you could set up like in the right drawing. Now, your truck is the person in the tree. Again, the arms are the winch. You run the line from your truck to a snatch block attached to your buddy's rig and then back to yourself. You could attach it back to your truck which would put all of the force of the lift on your truck. It'd be better if you attached it to the tree you hoisted yourself up on if possible, since this would split the force of the pull over two different objects.
 
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Metcalf

Expedition Leader
In the left example, you're hoisting yourself into the tree. There's a snatch block attached to the tree branch and you're suspended in a bos'ns chair. You want to move one foot vertically, how much line are you going to have to pull? One foot. There's no mechanical advantage there. If there's 200 lbs that you're trying to move and a one foot pull moves you one foot (1:1), you're going to need more than 200 lbs of force to make the move.

Ummmmmm....

The working line is still parted. If you pull 2 feet you are only going to move 1 foot IF you take into account the reference point of the chair is moving.

It is different than if you had someone on the ground pulling you up the tree.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Office supply demo time.....

Here is the setup...

20120824_133001.jpg


The altoids tin is your vehicle. You have set up a winch rigging to a tree with a snatch block ( push pin ). This is very typical winch rigging....

20120824_132329.jpg


Here is the starting position. Imagine that we are going to spool on 'X' amount of line ( from knot to knot ) onto the winch. 'X' represents the cable length change in respect to the vehicle.

20120824_132344.jpg


So here we have just spooled 'X' amount of cable onto the winch at the front of the vehicle. Notice that we only moved 1/2 the length of 'X'. This is because the point of reference is the winch on the front of the vehicle.
 

Louisd75

Adventurer
I have a 1st gen. Tacoma that will be loaded down pretty well with armor, gear and 8000lb winch. I just saw the "make your own line" thread but I just dont have time for that right now nor do I trust myself enough. I ordered an ARB winch extension strap for it and then realized it was rated to 9900lb. It occurred to me that if I am using a snatch block the pulling force could be greater than 9900lb. So then I ordered the 17500lb strap and upon receiving it ,it's HUGE, plus someone said a strap rated to high could result in damage instead of failing when too much force is applied, and I'm wondering if this is overkill. I'm not sure which strap to return. Advice is greatly appreciated.

To answer your original question, I'd return them both and get a synthetic winchline extension from Masterpull or Viking Offroad. Yes, it's more expensive, but hey, you've already doled out pretty close to that in ordering the two extensions you have now. It's also smaller, lighter, and, if need be, you can use it with a snatch block. Just out of curiosity, what kind of line do you currently have on your winch (steel or synthetic?) and how long is it?

Here's one I found that would probably work out well, 17600lb breaking strength: http://www.vikingoffroad.com/produc...hline-Extension-%2d-Black-w{47}Soft-Eyes.html

Or 12300lb breaking strength: http://www.vikingoffroad.com/5-16-x-50-viking-offroad-winchline-extension-black-w-soft-eyes/

Or PM Masterpull. I know that they do custom stuff but Alex would be able to provide more info with that.
 

LR Max

Local Oaf
Where there is no mechanical advantage is when you're using a pulley to change the direction of a pull, like around a corner.

Indeed. Also this is the only time I've never needed a pulley block. I've never had to use it for my own recovery, only for recovering others/moving heavy crap.

I kinda feel like the point is moot since I've used my winch to pull myself out of chassis deep mud or pull a truck up that had driven off the side of the mountain...all on single line pull.
 

I Leak Oil

Expedition Leader
I kinda feel like the point is moot since I've used my winch to pull myself out of chassis deep mud or pull a truck up that had driven off the side of the mountain...all on single line pull.

Max, you forget what site you're on here though. If you don't have fifteen 30K lb. snatch blocks rigged up so your winch is only exerting finger pressure to move your truck on a dirt road you don't know how to winch. Merely saying "single line pull" might get you banned here!
Come on man, wake up!
 

Antichrist

Expedition Leader
Indeed. Also this is the only time I've never needed a pulley block. I've never had to use it for my own recovery, only for recovering others/moving heavy crap.

I kinda feel like the point is moot since I've used my winch to pull myself out of chassis deep mud or pull a truck up that had driven off the side of the mountain...all on single line pull.
Am I remembering right that you have a SWB Series with 12,000lb winch on a it? That makes a big difference, even on a LWB.
 
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